LIV Golf

[simsini]

sorry I’m not sure the point ?

It’s still not an “invitational” as such and anyone can qualify to play in it if they meet the criteria

Anyone can qualify for LIV Golf if they meet the criteria. There's a qualifier for next year in November.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I was watching LIV. They have some big names who, presumably, will drop off the not-really-world-ranking list next year. Will the majors be so stupid as to not invite them?

 

[PJ87]

I consistently speak against it. What they want is people of conscience to switch off and stop doing that. It’s called sports washing.

Judging by this thread it’s been very effective.

Not at all. Nobody thinks the Saudi are good people

Not caring about how a sport is funded and liking the Saudis are two different things

Sooner you understand that the better tbh

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Anyone can qualify for LIV Golf if they meet the criteria. There's a qualifier for next year in November.

Again I’m not sure the point

LIV is still pretty much invite only for 99% of the golfers bar the odd spot that they are trying to use to fulfil criteria for ranking points

I was watching LIV. They have some big names who, presumably, will drop off the not-really-world-ranking list next year. Will the majors be so stupid as to not invite them?

The majors won’t change their qualifying criteria - any big name that feels they should be in the majors will either have an exemption or look to qualify in other ways

 

[sweaty sock]

Not at all. Nobody thinks the Saudi are good people

Not caring about how a sport is funded and liking the Saudis are two different things

Sooner you understand that the better tbh

In fairness, the current pga, corruption, bribes, tax evasion that I'm sure exists accepted still provides a colossal value of charity donations, that could be very much at risk, so a for profit investor, regardless of human rights views, could very much have a negative effect on perception of the sport

 

[simsini]

Again I’m not sure the point

LIV is still pretty much invite only for 99% of the golfers bar the odd spot that they are trying to use to fulfil criteria for ranking points

The point is there is a pathway to get into LIV Golf from November. It had to recruit players initially to establish itself. It will no longer be paying big money to sign players up. I liken it to the PDC in darts when it started up against the BDO. I can see bigger fields in the years to come with LIV and it won't just be 48 players.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Sorry it was $800mil it lost in its first year

So to put that in an even crazier perspective.
That is 0.3% of the PIF pot

Jay Monahan has handled this so badly and could go down as the commisioner who ruined the PGAT if this goes a certain way.

But one thing he got right is when he said.
"If this is an arms race and the weapons of choice are dollar bills we can't compete"

Dead right.

If the merger doesn't happen Liv can go as long as it wants to and at some point it will become sustainable.

Why because the PGAT has made Livs path to sustainability a lot easier.

They have given the green light to the corporate world and TV networks to enagage with Liv golf, whereas before there was a stigma attached to it mainly because of the rhetoric from the PGAT, now its absolutely fine because the PGAT did it themselves.

The CEO of Hero was at Liv London to discuss sponsoring a Liv Event in India, he obviously is a big friend of Tiger and sponsors his event, would he have been there before the merger announcement, probably not or he would have pissed Tiger off, now no problem.

Also a lot of the PGAT players real loyalty has gone because of their tours hypocritical behaviour where it threw a lot of the top players under the bus.
The more top players Liv gets the more attractive it becomes to sponsors etc

If the merger doesn't happen and Liv come knocking again to the top players with the big bucks, some will go..
The more players that go, the greater the need to find a way for Liv Golfers to qualify for majors.

As Pat Perez said (biased of course but still right)
"The PGAT is f****d because they have to go and find the $$ whereas ours comes out of the ground"

This merger has to happen for the PGAT now but make no mistake the guy with all the weapons of choice is Yassir Al Rumayyan.

 

[Bdill93]

Out of interest, if PIF just wanted to gain more influence in sport, and they were never likely to get a seat at the table on the PGAT, could they not have just invested directly in the European Tour?

Invest in a tour that already exists and functions, a tour that already has a fan base. Initially, their involvement would simply be financial, and this used to try and entice some big names from the PGAT. Over time, they could use their influence to discuss other changes that may appeal to golf fans, whether that be format or venue related. Give themselves time to investigate what works, and what doesn't.

Would the European Tour have accepted them with open arms?

Starting a brand new golf tour from scratch was always going to be a huge ask. Even if they seem to have got what they want now, a seat at the table with the PGAT, that seems to be in doubt as to whether it will even be realistically possible.

I read somewhere that they just didn't take the phone call - no interest at all.

 

[AussieKB]

I read somewhere that they just didn't take the phone call - no interest at all.

The DP tour really missed the boat with this, could have had big names playing in their events, look after the sponsors.

 

[wjemather]

Out of interest, if PIF just wanted to gain more influence in sport, and they were never likely to get a seat at the table on the PGAT, could they not have just invested directly in the European Tour?

Invest in a tour that already exists and functions, a tour that already has a fan base. Initially, their involvement would simply be financial, and this used to try and entice some big names from the PGAT. Over time, they could use their influence to discuss other changes that may appeal to golf fans, whether that be format or venue related. Give themselves time to investigate what works, and what doesn't.

Would the European Tour have accepted them with open arms?

Starting a brand new golf tour from scratch was always going to be a huge ask. Even if they seem to have got what they want now, a seat at the table with the PGAT, that seems to be in doubt as to whether it will even be realistically possible.

That's exactly what PIF tried doing; the PGAT didn't even take the call, and the ET had a meeting but didn't take them seriously.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I read somewhere that they just didn't take the phone call - no interest at all.

It will be interesting to see if that’s really the case

But the ET is part owned by the PGAT ( before liv etc ) and there was a lot of work going on to enhance a number of the events working with Rolex and Co sanctioned etc so it shouldn’t be a surprise that they stick by the established tour in golf

The DP tour really missed the boat with this, could have had big names playing in their events, look after the sponsors.

The ET already play in events all over the world including down in Australia- there was nothing stopping the top players from playing in those events , enhancing those events , bringing the sponsership and ranking points with them

So why didn’t they ?

 

[AussieKB]

The ET already play in events all over the world including down in Australia- there was nothing stopping the top players from playing in those events , enhancing those events , bringing the sponsership and ranking points with them

So why didn’t they ?

They would have had get a release from the PGAT and for that there were big penalty's, 'but my point is the DP tour missed the boat'

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The ET already play in events all over the world including down in Australia- there was nothing stopping the top players from playing in those events , enhancing those events , bringing the sponsership and ranking points with them

So why didn’t they ?

They would have had get a release from the PGAT and for that there were big penalty's, 'but my point is the DP tour missed the boat'

What big penalties ? PGAT players have never had an issue going to play in ET events ?

That’s why the likes of Horschal and even Reed played in ET events , and also players like Thomas , Spieth have played in events in the past

There was nothing stopping any player in the Worlds top 100 from playing in any event on the ET to help enhance it

As for ET missing the boat - do you mean the money train ?

This week will be the strongest event in golf outside the majors and it’s on the ET with most of the top 100 playing including all the top 10 the eligible bar Rahm

It’s prob stronger than any event on the PGAT .

 

[AussieKB]

What big penalties ? PGAT players have never had an issue going to play in ET events ?

That’s why the likes of Horschal and even Reed played in ET events , and also players like Thomas , Spieth have played in events in the past

There was nothing stopping any player in the Worlds top 100 from playing in any event on the ET to help enhance it

As for ET missing the boat - do you mean the money train ?

This week will be the strongest event in golf outside the majors and it’s on the ET with most of the top 100 playing including all the top 10 the eligible bar Rahm

It’s prob stronger than any event on the PGAT .

For every release they gave you had to commit to some events that they would not normally play.

Reed/Horschell etc were paid appearance money and only cherry picked their events.

Where are all the European/UK players supporting the DP events at the moment ?

ET missing the boat, was not about money, but getting their sponsors top players.

This week being strong ? maybe the following week might have something to do with it.

This week being the strongest except for Rahm ? Maybe the current Open Champion and PGA Champion could have made even stronger.

 

[Swango1980]

That's exactly what PIF tried doing; the PGAT didn't even take the call, and the ET had a meeting but didn't take them seriously.

Interesting, I wonder if they regret that now that PIF seemed to have forced their way into the PGAT anyway?

I'm sure it can get pretty complicated, with the relationships already between PGAT and DP World Tour, including all their various obligations. However, looking back, had the European Tour just taken the money from PIF in the first place, they could have potentially given their own tour a huge boost, and make it more competitive with the PGAT again, by attracting more of the big names. Now that the PGAT have jumped into bed with PIF (with European Tour somehow tagging along), surely the guys could be thinking "damn it, we could have had all that money to ourselves and really built something pretty special"

 

[Deleted member 15344]

For every release they gave you had to commit to some events that they would not normally play.

Reed/Horschell etc were paid appearance money and only cherry picked their events.

Where are all the European/UK players supporting the DP events at the moment ?

ET missing the boat, was not about money, but getting their sponsors top players.

This week being strong ? maybe the following week might have something to do with it.

This week being the strongest except for Rahm ? Maybe the current Open Champion and PGA Champion could have made even stronger.

The ET events are full of Europeans and UK players plus players from Aus , Asia , Africa

If you mean the top ones - most of them are members of both tours and split their time accordingly as they have done for decades , it’s the same as the likes of Cam Smith going to play on the PGAT and not the Australian/ Asia Tours


A lot of golf is focused around the biggest market - the sponsors the media deal will follow where they know they will get the biggest most consistent income and viewers - and that unfortunately is the US , which is why LIV also have the majority of their events in the US


And with golf also now being nearly 52 weeks of the year you won’t get a strong event every single week

But that’s good because there are countless amount of golfers below that top 100 trying to get a career and a lot of those golfers get into those events where it’s a drop off

The only way LIV get the same level of field is because of the money they pay and the fact the players have to play every event

 

[simsini]

The ET events are full of Europeans and UK players plus players from Aus , Asia , Africa

If you mean the top ones - most of them are members of both tours and split their time accordingly as they have done for decades , it’s the same as the likes of Cam Smith going to play on the PGAT and not the Australian/ Asia Tours


A lot of golf is focused around the biggest market - the sponsors the media deal will follow where they know they will get the biggest most consistent income and viewers - and that unfortunately is the US , which is why LIV also have the majority of their events in the US


And with golf also now being nearly 52 weeks of the year you won’t get a strong event every single week

But that’s good because there are countless amount of golfers below that top 100 trying to get a career and a lot of those golfers get into those events where it’s a drop off

The only way LIV get the same level of field is because of the money they pay and the fact the players have to play every event

The European Tour is killing itself for several reasons, including dropping the number of tournaments members have to play and by agreeing places on next year's PGA Tour for their top players. The current Race to Dubai standings are a joke, with how few tournaments some have played.

It is now the European equivalent of the Korn Ferry Tour.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The European Tour is killing itself for several reasons, including dropping the number of tournaments members have to play and by agreeing places on next year's PGA Tour for their top players. The current Race to Dubai standings are a joke, with how few tournaments some have played.

It is now the European equivalent of the Korn Ferry Tour.

I keep saying this. But other than a handful of events. It has been for decades.

The standard of golf on the KFT is probably better that your average ET event.

 

[sweaty sock]

The European Tour is killing itself for several reasons, including dropping the number of tournaments members have to play and by agreeing places on next year's PGA Tour for their top players. The current Race to Dubai standings are a joke, with how few tournaments some have played.

It is now the European equivalent of the Korn Ferry Tour.

It is a bit of a joke that Rory is leading with 50% more points than 2nd, despite only having 1 counting event in UAE (Hero) which is notorious for huge appearance fees, and 4 tournaments in USA....

 

[simsini]

I keep saying this. But other than a handful of events. It has been for decades.

The standard of golf on the KFT is probably better that your average ET event.

The European Tour used to have strong fields for mid ranking tournaments, not just the top tournaments. The 2015 British Masters had 26 of the world's top 100 playing in it. This year that number was only 8. They are not even fighting their own decline.

It is a bit of a joke that Rory is leading with 50% more points than 2nd, despite only having 1 counting event in UAE (Hero) which is notorious for huge appearance fees, and 4 tournaments in USA....

Completely agree. It openly mocks the players who compete on the European Tour week in week out.