LIV Golf

sweaty sock

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Many businesses that are about to fold continue as normal right up the the point they close.

LiV needs to continue and be seen to be a viable entity to allow the PIF/PGAT deal to go through. Otherwise they become a monopoly.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised that once the deal is done. LiV is handed over to Greg and the boys for them to run.

Thats not totally crazy, make the liv guys work out their contracts, miss out on whatever the goodies the pga get for a couple years, then everyone can come back together and hopefully the money has at least had the edge taken off....
 

Mel Smooth

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Slightly odd letter from DLIII (I thought)

Seems like open letters are in fashion at the moment!



He's toned it down considerably from some of his earlier views on LIV - I'm guessing he's either trying to diffuse a little tension from the situation while Monahan is ill, or he's realised the value of the Saudis to the PGAT.
 

Bdill93

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Looking forwards to seeing a top class field take on Valderamma next week, some interesting insight here into how the DP world tour just doesn’t bring enough stars to the table.


IMO thats the biggest positive of LIV as a spectator/ fan.

You know whos coming to play, and you know that a ticket for any day means you can see them playing.

Maybe that's what the PGAT were struggling to meet financially - they planned some no cut events but it must cost them a lot more than a standard event to do that?
 
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LiV needs to continue and be seen to be a viable entity to allow the PIF/PGAT deal to go through. Otherwise they become a monopoly.

Good point.

Slightly odd letter from DLIII (I thought)

Seems like open letters are in fashion at the moment!


I think the change of tone is due to realising/hearing the PGAT coffers were threatening its viability to continue to offer purses to keep its players happy.

As Brandel Chamblee said this merger has to happen for the PGAT now.
Money will always win the day and they have realised they have no chance of winning that battle.
 

BubbaP

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Wonder if any will turn up! Recall GN had a hard time previously.


Acknowledging they're politicians, so likely playing to voters, but maybe does give some insight into how the PGAT is viewed in USA.

"Our goal is to uncover the facts about what went into the PGA Tour’s deal with the Saudi Public Investment Fund and what the Saudi takeover means for the future of this cherished American institution and our national interest"

"circumstances and terms of the planned agreement” as well as the “anticipated role of the PIF in U.S. professional golf. "
 
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A key thing - looks like the PGAT will be the controlling body


The part about the PGA Tour retaining control of the NewCo appears to be correct.

Much was made about Jimmy Dunne’s claims that the deal struck was one that would bring a cash infusion to the PGA Tour and DP World Tour without the tours giving up control over how the money was spent. Based on language in the framework agreement, that appears to be what the PIF has signed on for.

“The PGA Tour will at all times maintain a controlling voting interest in NewCo and PIF will continue to hold a non-controlling voting interest, notwithstanding any incremental investment by PIF or exercise of its right of first refusal.”


I guess that’s why Norman hasn’t been involved

And also their take on the future of LIV


We still don’t know what’s going to happen to LIV Golf.

The framework agreement spells out that the three golf entities will continue to co-exist. Let’s look at the exact language:

“NewCo will undertake a full and objective empirical data-driven evaluation of LIV and its prospects and potential and will make a good faith assessment of the benefits of team golf in general, and PIF, the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour will work together in an effort to determine how best to integrate team golf into PGA Tour and DP World Tour events going forward.”

In our opinion, this could be taken three ways. After the 2023 LIV Golf season:

• The NewCo will evaluate the P&L of LIV Golf – an entity that pays for TV coverage, costs hundreds of millions of dollars a year and brings in almost zero revenue – and decide to kill it and fold the players back into the PGA Tour/DP World Tour.

• The NewCo will decide that the team golf model – now with all of the world’s best players at its disposal – would unlock untold amounts of new revenue and serves as a better way to run men’s professional golf. This would require totally blowing up the existing Tour system and all of its infrastructure, including the billions of dollars in committed contractual revenue from title sponsors and media partners, which stretches into the next decade. This seems unlikely.

• Due to the P&L exercise above, the NewCo decides to shutter LIV Golf and comes up with a totally different team concept. Picture a mini team event series in the fall (which has been talked about in the past), a reviving of the World Cup of Golf (which has been dormant since 2018, when the likes of Gary Woodland and Matt Kuchar were the players willing to travel to China to represent the United States. A worldwide event like that, free of the constraints of the Olympic committee’s love of stroke play, with purses to draw the best players from each country, seems like a far more interesting option than much of what else has been presented.

What seems least likely based on the framework agreement and the statements made the past few weeks by most key stakeholders, would be that LIV and the PGA/DP World Tours continue to operate independently and run concurrently as they do now. There is perhaps a chance that they run separately in different times of the year, but with the top players' continued pleas to consolidate the schedule and play fewer tournaments, it seems next to impossible to get enough critical mass to make both products successful.”
 
D

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A key thing - looks like the PGAT will be the controlling body


The part about the PGA Tour retaining control of the NewCo appears to be correct.

Much was made about Jimmy Dunne’s claims that the deal struck was one that would bring a cash infusion to the PGA Tour and DP World Tour without the tours giving up control over how the money was spent. Based on language in the framework agreement, that appears to be what the PIF has signed on for.

“The PGA Tour will at all times maintain a controlling voting interest in NewCo and PIF will continue to hold a non-controlling voting interest, notwithstanding any incremental investment by PIF or exercise of its right of first refusal.”


I guess that’s why Norman hasn’t been involved

And also their take on the future of LIV


We still don’t know what’s going to happen to LIV Golf.

The framework agreement spells out that the three golf entities will continue to co-exist. Let’s look at the exact language:

“NewCo will undertake a full and objective empirical data-driven evaluation of LIV and its prospects and potential and will make a good faith assessment of the benefits of team golf in general, and PIF, the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour will work together in an effort to determine how best to integrate team golf into PGA Tour and DP World Tour events going forward.”

In our opinion, this could be taken three ways. After the 2023 LIV Golf season:

• The NewCo will evaluate the P&L of LIV Golf – an entity that pays for TV coverage, costs hundreds of millions of dollars a year and brings in almost zero revenue – and decide to kill it and fold the players back into the PGA Tour/DP World Tour.

• The NewCo will decide that the team golf model – now with all of the world’s best players at its disposal – would unlock untold amounts of new revenue and serves as a better way to run men’s professional golf. This would require totally blowing up the existing Tour system and all of its infrastructure, including the billions of dollars in committed contractual revenue from title sponsors and media partners, which stretches into the next decade. This seems unlikely.

• Due to the P&L exercise above, the NewCo decides to shutter LIV Golf and comes up with a totally different team concept. Picture a mini team event series in the fall (which has been talked about in the past), a reviving of the World Cup of Golf (which has been dormant since 2018, when the likes of Gary Woodland and Matt Kuchar were the players willing to travel to China to represent the United States. A worldwide event like that, free of the constraints of the Olympic committee’s love of stroke play, with purses to draw the best players from each country, seems like a far more interesting option than much of what else has been presented.

What seems least likely based on the framework agreement and the statements made the past few weeks by most key stakeholders, would be that LIV and the PGA/DP World Tours continue to operate independently and run concurrently as they do now. There is perhaps a chance that they run separately in different times of the year, but with the top players' continued pleas to consolidate the schedule and play fewer tournaments, it seems next to impossible to get enough critical mass to make both products successful.”
I’m really surprised that the LiV PR team hadn’t already posted this given the jubilation a few weeks ago when the takeover merger joint venture was announced.

Maybe it’s taking longer than usual for their posts to be sent to them?
 

Mel Smooth

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So LIV are getting tv rights, OWGR points, and team golf is part of the professional future of the sport.

Kinda not what a few people on here have been saying for the last year or so…
 
D

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Every Company I've been involved with it makes no difference who the President or CEO are, it is the Person who controls the purse strings is really in charge.

Not really what’s happening here is it

It’s clear that there will be a controlling committee and that’s going to be with the PGAT
So LIV are getting tv rights, OWGR points, and team golf is part of the professional future of the sport.

Kinda not what a few people on here have been saying for the last year or so…

Where does it say that in the agreement ?

If that was true you would have been shouting from the rooftops about it


A lot of people will probably focus on the Official World Golf Rankings line.

The wording in the framework agreement is: “The Parties will cooperate in good faith and use best efforts to secure OWGR recognition for LIV events and players under OWGR's criteria for considering LIV's pending application.”

As a refresher: A big hesitation for players who chose not to jump to LIV (and a big complaint of those who did), is the lack of OWGR points available at LIV events. These points are used to determine who qualifies for major championships and, for some players, are also used to determine sponsor incentive bonuses. The fear (rightly so) for many players was that if they don’t get new OWGR points, their world rankings would plummet and they would not be eligible for major championships, which is exactly what happened for some this year. (Reminder: The majors mostly make up the OWGR board and can change how they fill their fields any time they choose to do so. Feel free to read more about this whole mess here.)

So, is this line in the framework agreement deserving of a LIV victory lap? It’s possible, but smart money would be on a “not exactly” for a few reasons.

Besides the fact that the phrase “best efforts” feels far from a guarantee…”

Which TV rights are LIV getting ?
 
D

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Believe what you like Phil but in the real world Money talks, that is why PIF and PGAT have merged (or been taken over)


PIF and PGAT haven’t merged


PIF is the public investment fund for Saudi Arabia


PIF will become a priority sponsor for the new commercial company that provides funding for the main golf tours

The New Commercial company will have the head of PIF on the board as chairman along with a number of other PGAT officials with PGAT officials having the controlling votes - again Norman not involved at all

There will still be hundreds of millions from other commercial revenues for the events
 

AussieKB

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PIF and PGAT haven’t merged


PIF is the public investment fund for Saudi Arabia


PIF will become a priority sponsor for the new commercial company that provides funding for the main golf tours

The New Commercial company will have the head of PIF on the board as chairman along with a number of other PGAT officials with PGAT officials having the controlling votes - again Norman not involved at all

There will still be hundreds of millions from other commercial revenues for the events
I agree they have not merged.
 

r0wly86

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Not really what’s happening here is it

It’s clear that there will be a controlling committee and that’s going to be with the PGAT


Where does it say that in the agreement ?

If that was true you would have been shouting from the rooftops about it


A lot of people will probably focus on the Official World Golf Rankings line.

The wording in the framework agreement is: “The Parties will cooperate in good faith and use best efforts to secure OWGR recognition for LIV events and players under OWGR's criteria for considering LIV's pending application.”

As a refresher: A big hesitation for players who chose not to jump to LIV (and a big complaint of those who did), is the lack of OWGR points available at LIV events. These points are used to determine who qualifies for major championships and, for some players, are also used to determine sponsor incentive bonuses. The fear (rightly so) for many players was that if they don’t get new OWGR points, their world rankings would plummet and they would not be eligible for major championships, which is exactly what happened for some this year. (Reminder: The majors mostly make up the OWGR board and can change how they fill their fields any time they choose to do so. Feel free to read more about this whole mess here.)

So, is this line in the framework agreement deserving of a LIV victory lap? It’s possible, but smart money would be on a “not exactly” for a few reasons.

Besides the fact that the phrase “best efforts” feels far from a guarantee…”

Which TV rights are LIV getting ?

In legal terms any clause such as best efforts or best endeavours are used a lot but are entirely meaningless, because you cannot define best effort and no one is going to go to court to enforce someone's best efforts
 
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