LIV Golf

[LincolnShep]

I wonder if LIV could be the answer to the wraparound seasons that nobody really seems to like.

We could have PGAT/DPWT (new name pending) style events from March to October, then a series of team events (with all of the razzmatazz that LIV brought) during the winter. Even traditional golf fans accept a bit more rowdiness when the Ryder Cup is played so the team format lends itself to the LIV 'golf but louder' ethos. PIF could put up big purses so the star players will decide whether they want a rest or whether they want to play through the winter.

I think LIV style events have the potential to attract kids to the sport like The Hundred has done for cricket. There's room for both styles of golf - and probably more besides.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Thought young Puig Currius did pretty well at the US Open, having gone through qualifying

At least he put himself up for it. Unlike Poulter, Westwood, Gooch et al.

 

[Bdill93]

A simple question

Over the last 18 months it’s shown that the LIV events don’t attract the crowds ( bar Australia ) , don’t attract the media deals or sponsors

So why would PIF continue to fund the LIV style events when they don’t work and also put in lots of money to the current PGAT events


Would it not make more sense to bin all the LIV events off and put the money into the current PGAT/ET events which between them play all over the world - they would prob bring in a big final series based in the Middle East for the OOM for the combined tours ?

Why would it make sense to remove PGA events ? They are very well supported both on site and in the media

If this all goes through then there is no need for LIV events - they serve no purpose beyond getting a handful of golfers richer ? Saudi wanted to get a foot in the door in golf - they tried it themselves with GN ideas , and it’s not worked beyond forcing PGAT going to them

Next season the LIV could easily stop and we go back to the two main tours with increased funding and more co sanction events to get the top players playing more often in places like Australia

LIV had a purpose for Saudi and it’s provided that.

I think the answer is - the future golf fans may enjoy this.

People like to see the stars play when they go to a tournament and the biggest draw for LIV in my opinion is that a ticket for any day guarantees you seeing the big names.

5 hours from start to finish and the golf is done.

The concept itself is quite good and crowds will probably increase over a few years if all the events get televised and start to attract attention.

Teams mean merchandise can also be sold, bringing in a new revenue stream for the tours too.

As I say, I don't think its for the current golf fan, its something for the future generations. Even Tiger and Rory's thing has a team aspect so they too must think there's something in it.

 

[Swango1980]

I wonder if LIV could be the answer to the wraparound seasons that nobody really seems to like.

We could have PGAT/DPWT (new name pending) style events from March to October, then a series of team events (with all of the razzmatazz that LIV brought) during the winter. Even traditional golf fans accept a bit more rowdiness when the Ryder Cup is played so the team format lends itself to the LIV 'golf but louder' ethos. PIF could put up big purses so the star players will decide whether they want a rest or whether they want to play through the winter.

I think LIV style events have the potential to attract kids to the sport like The Hundred has done for cricket. There's room for both styles of golf - and probably more besides.

Not sure. Would that require the world's best to play more this time of year, when they generally like to have a lot more time off?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the answer is - the future golf fans may enjoy this.

People like to see the stars play when they go to a tournament and the biggest draw for LIV in my opinion is that a ticket for any day guarantees you seeing the big names.

5 hours from start to finish and the golf is done.

The concept itself is quite good and crowds will probably increase over a few years if all the events get televised and start to attract attention.

Teams mean merchandise can also be sold, bringing in a new revenue stream for the tours too.

As I say, I don't think its for the current golf fan, its something for the future generations. Even Tiger and Rory's thing has a team aspect so they too must think there's something in it.

With the increase of money within the ET and PGAT events you will see the big players

If anything you will see all of them at a lot of major events

Take the Scottish Open as an example


It’s going to be loaded on both sides of the draw , you will be able to either spend the morning watching them all or afternoon or all day long

The LIV have a handful of top golfers and filled up with players in the later years of the careers or journeymen

They aren’t anymore loaded than a standard tour event

What could also happen is more funds going into the British Masters or Welsh Open to try and bring more of the top players in

And then there is the PGA at Wentworth - another event loaded with the top Europeans


LIV have a manufactured team by adding scores together - a minority push the team events but it’s always going to be a hard sell.


Last year LIV had losses of 800mil - that won’t change much this season , why would PIF continue to stand it up. They aren’t going to be getting the money from the Telly deals that are signed for the PGAT

 

[LincolnShep]

Not sure. Would that require the world's best to play more this time of year, when they generally like to have a lot more time off?

Not require, as private contractors, they should have the option. We'll see how much they want 'more time with their families' when big bundles of cash are waved in front of them. If a few decide to have the winter off fair play to them, there will be plenty eager to play.

 

[rksquire]

From the very few reports coming out it appears the rushed merger decision was because the PGAT was going to run out of money and couldn't sustain the increased designated events purses for the foreseeable future.

So before that became desperate they went now and that's the position of strength they are talking about.

Lots of press about looking after the loyal PGAT players and that will have to be a part of getting this merger through but I think it's fair to presume that Al Rumayyan will also want to look after his loyal players who put all their trust in him when leaving the PGAT.

As I've always said the MONEY always has the power and this is no different.

As Brandel Chamblee said the PGAT can't afford for this merger not to happen now.. The PGAT has lost the trust of its players loyalty and given a green light that's its OK to take the money.
If the merger doesn't happen Liv will continue and start to recruit players a lot more easily.

I think the below will happen, just my opinion folks and what makes sense to me.

-Top PGAT players who stayed loyal will be offered a compensation payment. I don't really get this - their loyalty was rewarded with increased purses, guaranteed incomes, PIP, other incentives etc. I appreciate they've been misled but they still had a choice to stay with the new riches on offer or go; they stayed, and the new riches are still on offer so don't understand why they feel they should be rewarded
-Liv Style events will continue within the new schedule for Al Rumayyan to keep his players happy, probably rebranded. Absolutely - rebranding is key and will give everyone a win - 'LIV' will disappear so Jay can say he was right; The team format will continue under a new banner and probably less restrictions but I imagine contracted LIV players will stay in place
- Liv Style events will be in USA and around the world like Oz. That's good, hopefully accessed by the likes of Rahm, Scheffler etc. as well
- PGA Tour events that survive will be the iconic events held in the USA It's still the marketplace, suspect there'll still be events most weeks, just with weaker fields - you can't just keep the top of the roster happy.
-Liv Golfers will be able to become members of the PGA Tour but will only get some kind of limited status precluding them from the Fed Ex playoffs (keep PGAT players happier), this could be sponsors invites that will keep sponsors on board and able to bring the top Liv Golfers to their events. This maybe is the short term outlook; in the medium to long term I would expect a fairly seemless transition between Team events and PGAT events.
-Top PGAT players will be offered equity in teams for the Liv style events Actually good for both organisations.
-All events under the new umbrella will be given OWGR points very quickly. Actually good for the game of golf
- All events will be shown on major TV networks around the world. There was a reluctance before but Jay & Co. have now smoothed that path for TV & Sponsors

A simple question

Over the last 18 months it’s shown that the LIV events don’t attract the crowds ( bar Australia ) , don’t attract the media deals or sponsors Believe that has changed with the potential merger. There was a lot of negativity around LIV but a rebranded structure with positive golf authorities support will make a massive difference

So why would PIF continue to fund the LIV style events when they don’t work and also put in lots of money to the current PGAT events. They wouldn't, it was a start-up and a means to an end - given where it's landed with the merger arguably it's been very successful and exceeded expectations - there is a scenario where a rebranded Team schedule is very successful. The PIF money will be funding golf. But, the question could also be asked - why put money into the PGAT? It's becoming more clear they were haemorrhaging cash - the path they were going down wasn't going to last long.


Would it not make more sense to bin all the LIV events off and put the money into the current PGAT/ET events which between them play all over the world - they would prob bring in a big final series based in the Middle East for the OOM for the combined tours ? Maybe, in a way LIV will be binned (new / rebranded Team structured events), but stopping now doesn't make sense - the deal isn't finalised, players are contracted, events are planned etc. It needs to survive until deal approval or at least until the new world golfing structures are in place. If it's binned and the deal collapses, the PIF will find it more difficult to reboot... if the deal collapses and LIV is there, it's readymade for non-contracted players to make the move

Why would it make sense to remove PGA events ? They are very well supported both on site and in the media Not all events are well supported, the designated events has done some damage to other events and TV ratings for some events are shockingly bad. Removing PGA events in favour of a new format does open up new revenue streams and interest.

If this all goes through then there is no need for LIV events - they serve no purpose beyond getting a handful of golfers richer ? Saudi wanted to get a foot in the door in golf - they tried it themselves with GN ideas , and it’s not worked beyond forcing PGAT going to them. When it all goes through I don't think there will be LIV but there will be something that pro-LIVers will easily identify as being from LIV.... but as things stand it's a big 'IF'.

Next season the LIV could easily stop and we go back to the two main tours with increased funding and more co sanction events to get the top players playing more often in places like Australia Only if the deal goes through - if the deal doesn't go through, LIV may continue or fold and it would seem the vast majority wouldn't care; however, the PGATs current position appears to put all the eggs in the PIF basket - if the deal doesn't go through, and Tom Watson is concerned about his pension, how does the PGAT stop it's current rate of losses and effectively having to wrap up? Do Jimmy & Jay have a Plan B where they are actively searching for increased revenue streams?

LIV had a purpose for Saudi and it’s provided that. It has, but it needs to continue to do that until the deal is complete

To to comment in bold above, just opinion. Hard to disagree with any of the questions / comments made above but there is so many unknowns, but there is potential responses to all of them but it's purely speculation. The best scenario in the short term is for all Golf organisations to co-exist until the deal is complete; when it looks like it can be completed, that is the time to ask LIV (as a divisive organisation) to step away but with something in place under a different banner for a Team element so everyone can claim a win. It is an opportunity to review the calendar - the Major season is too short, punctuated by the Players and elevated events etc., it is actually all a bit much. Come the Masters next year, things should be a lot clearer - and I suspect GN, JM and GP will be stepping away, though I suspect one of them won't go quietly!

 

[Bdill93]

With the increase of money within the ET and PGAT events you will see the big players

If anything you will see all of them at a lot of major events

Take the Scottish Open as an example


It’s going to be loaded on both sides of the draw , you will be able to either spend the morning watching them all or afternoon or all day long

The LIV have a handful of top golfers and filled up with players in the later years of the careers or journeymen

They aren’t anymore loaded than a standard tour event

What could also happen is more funds going into the British Masters or Welsh Open to try and bring more of the top players in

And then there is the PGA at Wentworth - another event loaded with the top Europeans


LIV have a manufactured team by adding scores together - a minority push the team events but it’s always going to be a hard sell.


Last year LIV had losses of 800mil - that won’t change much this season , why would PIF continue to stand it up. They aren’t going to be getting the money from the Telly deals that are signed for the PGAT

But if they allow PGAT players to play the new LIV concept under a new name, the whole thing changes entirely doesn't it.

Rory "hates LIV" but LIV itself may die and the events be named something under this new tours banner - of which he will already be a member.

I know the current LIV isn't stacked from top to bottom, but the new tours team event thing very much could be if they do it right.

Shared TV dealings was one of the things mentioned in the interview wasn't it? Where do you see Saudi making their profit if they don't get this? Its where the vast majority will come from surely?

 

[HeftyHacker]

With the PGAs blessing it would actually be quite cool to see if any of the manufacturers would be keen to put teams into a LIV style event a few times a year.

I would imagine the likes of Taylormade would be all over this with their marketing efforts, they could probably enter two teams eith the divide being geographical or something. Nike is another perhaps, although obviously there will be crossover if mixing apparel and club manufacturers.

The brands already have the players signed up so it would be no skin off their nose. However if there was some kind of buy-in or entry fee required it may put some off.

 

[BubbaP]

I'm not expecting any real clarity from tonight's players meetings at travelers, or the following week at Valdarama - but no doubt lots will be said and the speculation and crystal ball gazing will continue in the media, and on here

 

[Mel Smooth]

I'm not expecting any real clarity from tonight's players meetings at travelers, or the following week at Valdarama - but no doubt lots will be said and the speculation and crystal ball gazing will continue in the media, and on here

Apparently Jimmy Dunne did most of the talking at the players meeting yesterday, and the players seemed less concerned, maybe they’ve seen the colour of the Riyal..





Well that's according to the tea leaves in the bottom of my cup this morning... ;-)



.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Suspected this might come to fruition due to Poulters previous involvement with the company - believe they also have a sponsorship presence in F1..

OKX Named First Official Global Sponsor of Majesticks GC Golf Team

Hong Kong SAR, 21 June 2023 - OKX,

www.okx.com

 

[Bdill93]

Suspected this might come to fruition due to Poulters previous involvement with the company - believe they also have a sponsorship presence in F1..

OKX Named First Official Global Sponsor of Majesticks GC Golf Team

Hong Kong SAR, 21 June 2023 - OKX,

www.okx.com

I'm quite surprised by this tbh.. because

1) one of the worst teams on LIV
2) LIV's future is somewhat unknown

 

[Mel Smooth]

I'm quite surprised by this tbh.. because

1) one of the worst teams on LIV
2) LIV's future is somewhat unknown

Well LIV’s future is somewhat unknown to us - I guess the investors have more faith or have negotiated some protection into the deal.

Can’t really argue with you on point 1 though - it’s about right for the team that pretty much represents Northern Europe to be a bit pants.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm quite surprised by this tbh.. because

1) one of the worst teams on LIV
2) LIV's future is somewhat unknown

I suspect there are a lot more devil in the detail

OKX trying to expand into Middle East


Certainly a company with an “interesting past” - seems perfect for them

 

[Bdill93]

I suspect there are a lot more devil in the detail

OKX trying to expand into Middle East


Certainly a company with an “interesting past” - seems perfect for them

Don't know anything about them to be honest! Sponsors on golfers shirts in general don't really relate to little old me

 

[simsini]

DJ Snake playing on the Friday night and Alesso playing on the Saturday night at Centurion Club, should be fantastic.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Why would they sponsor a team if Liv is about to be wrapped up.

Everything is suggesting Liv Style events are going to continue..

Said this before, PGAT has given the green light for sponsors to get involved with Liv golf now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671487292291133442

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Why would they sponsor a team if Liv is about to be wrapped up.

Everything is suggesting Liv Style events are going to continue..

Said this before, PGAT has given the green light for sponsors to get involved with Liv golf now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671487292291133442

They sponsored Poulter already, so it's not as if they are completely new

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Why would they sponsor a team if Liv is about to be wrapped up.

Everything is suggesting Liv Style events are going to continue..

Said this before, PGAT has given the green light for sponsors to get involved with Liv golf now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671487292291133442

Many businesses that are about to fold continue as normal right up the the point they close.

LiV needs to continue and be seen to be a viable entity to allow the PIF/PGAT deal to go through. Otherwise they become a monopoly.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised that once the deal is done. LiV is handed over to Greg and the boys for them to run.