LIV Golf

[evemccc]

The bottom line is that without more top rank golfers, they dont have a chance, and people know they dont need to see it to know its not of interest. If they signed 10 of the worlds top 30 or something, then for sure, its game on and the interest would be there.

The explanation, if there is a stronger lack of interest (and I would say there is none to infinitesimal) in the UK and USA is probably that they are the more sophisticated golf markets. They know the LIV player standard offering is poor. Other regions may not quite appreciate that, or are maybe tickled to have any golf visit their area at all, and so overlook the lack if real top rank competition in LIV.

I bet the field of a LIV event is head and shoulders above that of a non-designated event following on from a major, or the Players, if the metric is majors won from that field, and marketability and how well the player is known to the main-stream

 

[Backsticks]

I bet the field of a LIV event is head and shoulders above that of a non-designated event following on from a major, or the Players, if the metric is majors won from that field, and marketability and how well the player is known to the main-stream

They arent the metric though.
The key credibility element is how many of the worlds top golfer are competing with each other. Sure up and comers are interesting, as are a few golden oldies. But the keystone to competitiveness is the top men. LIV just doesnt have them at the moment.

 

[Swango1980]

A lot of countries are willing to embrace Liv Golf.

The really strong anti Liv feeling is reported to be mainly in the USA and UK, Just so happens to be 2 of the most important markets.

No UK TV Deal is still a big miss for them for sure.
If they could, like in Oz get a free to air channel in the UK to showcase Liv it would get a lot more people tuned in to give their golf product a chance.

And the relationship between the two is no coincidence. The USA and the UK are the most important markets for a reason, and they are how / where professional golf has grown over the many years pre LIV. So, those are the markets were LIV is most likely going to be under the microscope. If LIV is not fixing a problem that many felt did not exist, then much of the market are not going to be won over by LIV. And, it doesn't help that the major broadcasters are not interested as it stands, as advertising LIV is seriously stunted.

Other countries, where there is already not a massive golfing market, are obviously going to have less resistance to something they didn't much care about before (relative to the USA and UK). These may be the new markets LIV are trying to open the door to, of course.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Lets not forget that Liv is only 10 events old as a tour.

What they have achieved in that ridiculously short amount of time is pretty impressive.

 

[Swango1980]

Lets not forget that Liv is only 10 events old as a tour.

What they have achieved in that ridiculously short amount of time is pretty impressive.

I guess that is subjective and relative.

Throwing astronomical sums of money at most things is often good enough at getting the ball rolling. They've not had to rely on the key ingredients to get any entertainment / sporting business off the ground, primarily fans. Which leads to big interest in broadcasters and sponsors. I've no doubt that LOV wished that the money they were throwing around would have attracted most of the biggest players in the world, but they only managed to get a small handful, plus some well known names who were past the peaks of their career. No doubt they'll sing their praises on the players that they did get, but I'm sure they'll be frustrated they didn't get a lot more.

Had LIV managed to get to where they are now, with an already sustainable business model where it at least breaks even without the huge cash injection, then it would be seriously impressive. It hasn't got anywhere near that point yet, but if it does then that would also be impressive. I've no idea what timeframe that would require, if it is even possible.

 

[Backsticks]

Lets not forget that Liv is only 10 events old as a tour.

What they have achieved in that ridiculously short amount of time is pretty impressive.

I would say they have achieved nothing. Their goal was to attract, with mega money, the cream of the worlds top golfers, to a tour to rival the PGAT. They have failed. Paying huge sign on fees, and staging some events that attracted little or no real interest as sporting events, and were even rent a crowd, only getting air access on youtube, and the world is laughing at the team element of Smashems and Crushems (you couldnt make it up), is no achievement whatsoever. For the money put into it, it must be regarded as but an unmitigated failure.

 

[PJ87]

Quite like what they've done with the groupings here for Friday - Captains going out together in 3 balls then the 3 remaining players will go out together with their team mates - I'd imagine the Rippers will have quite a bog mobile following out there, and Poults will be looking forward to being out there with Koepka and Smith.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648558641627136000

I guess that is subjective and relative.

Throwing astronomical sums of money at most things is often good enough at getting the ball rolling. They've not had to rely on the key ingredients to get any entertainment / sporting business off the ground, primarily fans. Which leads to big interest in broadcasters and sponsors. I've no doubt that LOV wished that the money they were throwing around would have attracted most of the biggest players in the world, but they only managed to get a small handful, plus some well known names who were past the peaks of their career. No doubt they'll sing their praises on the players that they did get, but I'm sure they'll be frustrated they didn't get a lot more.

Had LIV managed to get to where they are now, with an already sustainable business model where it at least breaks even without the huge cash injection, then it would be seriously impressive. It hasn't got anywhere near that point yet, but if it does then that would also be impressive. I've no idea what timeframe that would require, if it is even possible.

Why do they need a sustainable business model when they are backed by pure money

If "sports washing" really is the goal then money is no object.

People say it's dull but to be fair bar like the back 9 on Sunday most PGA events are pretty dull

 

[Backsticks]

Why do they need a sustainable business model when they are backed by pure money

If "sports washing" really is the goal then money is no object.

People say it's dull but to be fair bar like the back 9 on Sunday most PGA events are pretty dull

It needs a sustainable return, even if returns are beyond financial. Sports washing yields from the reflected glory, adulation, and positive association with high profile and coveted success. If LIV tournaments remain a backwater, events regarded by the world as exhibitions and not serious sport, and 'wins' are of financial value but essentially token or non-sports, then sports washing is not getting its return. And will not keep funding it even if the wealth is there to do so.

 

[Swango1980]

Why do they need a sustainable business model when they are backed by pure money

If "sports washing" really is the goal then money is no object.

People say it's dull but to be fair bar like the back 9 on Sunday most PGA events are pretty dull

Well, they don't really. But if they don't, more of a chance they aren't getting the fans they'd like, or big interest from broadcasters and sponsors.

They could have all the money in the world, and 5 or 6 great players. But, if they have 10 fans, then I'd say it wasn't overly successful.

Plus, I'm not sure how long that "pure money" will last if there is not significant growth in the interest LIV gets?

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I wonder if the LIV rounds are measurably slower or quicker than a PGA tour round. Anyone heard anything?

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Just been watching some of the Aussie TV networks build up on Youtube.

Really looking forward to Liv Adelaide, it's going to be a cracker on what looks like a stunning golf course..

 

[Deleted member 21445]

I wonder if the LIV rounds are measurably slower or quicker than a PGA tour round. Anyone heard anything?

Just done a bit of research and seems they are both very similar at around 4- 4.5hrs
The whole field is done and dusted in that time on Liv of course due to the shotgun start.

Cantlay got a lot of flack at the masters for a 2ball taking nearly 5hrs

 

[Mel Smooth]

Seems to me the slowest on the course at a LIV event are those that are at the top of the leaderboard - with the leaders often finishing maybe a hole behind everybody else. That could be by design of course, especially on day three when the winner needs to be decided. I haven't seen anything to suggest there's an issue with slow play though, but it is early days at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Can’t imagine LIV is rapid, when they have Kevin Na in a shotgun

 

[Newtonuti]

Norman saying that LIV are considering a women's tour. I can see a lot more of the women heading over, due to the lower purses available on the LPGA and Ladies European Tour.

 

[Swango1980]

Norman saying that LIV are considering a women's tour. I can see a lot more of the women heading over, due to the lower purses available on the LPGA and Ladies European Tour.

Would be interesting if they have the same prize funds.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Norman saying that LIV are considering a women's tour. I can see a lot more of the women heading over, due to the lower purses available on the LPGA and Ladies European Tour.

They have to do one, I’m actually surprised that the usual LIV critics haven’t been launching their allegations of sexual discrimination against them for not already having one in place. Be rear if it could share the same venues as the men’s tour, on concurrent weekends.

 

[Beezerk]

Would be interesting if they have the same prize funds.

I’d expect so, it’s not like they can’t afford it. Would be a very good move for both parties on the face of it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Norman saying that LIV are considering a women's tour. I can see a lot more of the women heading over, due to the lower purses available on the LPGA and Ladies European Tour.

Will that be added to the rest of the list of things Norman has said that disappears

Right now Saudi already sponser a tour within Ladies Golf

The prize money on the LPGA is relative to the exposure. Offering big sums will have some move across but they’re only a small amount of “big names” within the Ladies Tour.

 

[Backsticks]

Norman saying that LIV are considering a women's tour. I can see a lot more of the women heading over, due to the lower purses available on the LPGA and Ladies European Tour.

They probably saw ladies golf as a lower level target, but with the failure of the mens LIV to be a credible PGAT contender, ladies are back on the radar as a revised lower goal. But higher than the semi-seniors/champions exhibition tour that mens LIV has stalled at.

But I would say great opportunity for LIV with a ladies tour. I think big numbers would jump, and they could make a big success of it. LPGA is not that strong, and ladies majors are so fluid they wouldnt be much of a factor. LIV could make and control 2 majors of their own creation.

Ladies golf is very competitive and a very high standard. Ripe for development. I would like to see LIV succeed on that front. (Leaving out the teams nonsense and cringy commentary etc, which they just dont know how to do). Broadcaster would be more receptive to it as well I would guess.