LIV Golf

[fundy]

The IPL seems to work around International cricket and club cricket well enough? The players are contracted to a team, play for said team in the competition and then go back to their other jobs afterwards.

Not totally true, international players who want to play in the IPL have to get a certificate of release from their county team (if English for eg) and national team to be able to play. Plenty have been turned down over the years since IPL started and plenty have chosen to retire from International cricket to pick up the big paydays as well as screwing over the clubs that helped them get to where they were

 

[doublebogey7]

Why does the funding source matter when comparing? Why is the source of funding okay for the LPGA and not PGA? The IPL model is very alike LIV.

The IPL is a great example of how it could work in the future. Hopefully PGA Tour agrees to release players in the future

I didn't know that IPL contracted players could release themselves from events to play in rival leagues without consequences, that's interesting.

Can only happen when LiV amend their players contracts to allow releases for PGAT events. Neither are likley to happen in reality as is would completely negate their business models.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Does recent rhetoric from a DP World Tour official saying nice things about Liv Golf and asking for a truce suggest they know they are losing the court case that happened Last week??

 

[doublebogey7]

Does recent rhetoric from a DP World Tour official saying nice things about Liv Golf and asking for a truce suggest they know they are losing the court case that happened Last week??

I don't whether anyone knows the result of last weeks case, probably not even the judges. In any case the guy you are referring to is an official of DPW not The European Tour.

 

[cleveland52]

I agree - they wont qualify for many points and I cant see many players working their way up rankings just Via LIV. I just think that if OWGR do recognise LIV as a tour fit to receive points then it goes some way in validating the tour as a whole.

I don't actually think LIV should be getting OWGR points. I just don't like the LIV golfers being blocked from playing elsewhere. I like the concept that players should just be able to pick and choose which tour they play on in any given week.

" I like the concept that players should just be able to pick and choose which tour they play on in any given week"

Yep, all Pro tour players should be able to play on any tour they desire including the LIV tour.

 

[BubbaP]

Both tours do co-exist, just not amicably but then that was never going to the case, no different in any other sport or business. Personally as a fan I prefer to see all the top players competing against each other as regularly as possible, so would prefer to not have competing tours.

PS I've now amended my unquatable post, thanks.

Just shows how everyone can be different, I certainly wouldn't want essentially 30 or whatever 'majors' a year.
Given a clean slate, I'd go for 3 or 4 fairly even strength tours with the best players coming together for special tournaments - which wouldn't be biased towards one country.

 

[doublebogey7]

I understand your point of view, and has some sympathy, but that is no longer the world we live in. Whilst golf is global its commercial opportunities are dominated by one region, as LiV are finding. I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future, so we are left with two tours vying for essentially the same market, and one of them will be the winner.

 

[MiurasFan]

The IPL seems to work around International cricket and club cricket well enough? The players are contracted to a team, play for said team in the competition and then go back to their other jobs afterwards.

That's because IPL now comes under BCCI control. The original One Day League didn't, which was a major reason for its demise! Golf has a different setup, as there is little, if any, national body concept that would sit over the professional tournament organising bodies.

 

[MiurasFan]

Why does the funding source matter when comparing? Why is the source of funding okay for the LPGA and not PGA? The IPL model is very alike LIV.

The IPL is a great example of how it could work in the future. Hopefully PGA Tour agrees to release players in the future

As LPP posted, the ICL is far more similar equivalent to LIV - and it failed, primarily because it was competing with the controlling body! There isn't the same setup in Golf though, so competition is not so restricted, but The PGAT will obviously try to defend their dominant position.

There's actually room for both tours, providing LIV's sugar-daddy sponsor is happy to spend billions on it! The PGAT is certainly self-funding and has sizeable reserves, though whether that will continue indefinitely is the question (I think it will). The Saudi funding isn't a serious issue in this battle imo, though the general issue of 'should sports bodies accept Saudi funding' is a valid one. PGAT and DPWT already accept sponsorship of events by Saudi and near-equivalent states, as does the LPGA - to answer the 2nd question above.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I wonder if LIV will be awarded the same tax exemptions as the PGAT moving forwards?

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I wonder if LIV will be awarded the same tax exemptions as the PGAT moving forwards?

They would need to make some money before worrying about tax!

 

[Swango1980]

I know DJ seems not to care that much, but i find it hard to believe that someone who must have been so dedicated for so long doesn't (or barely) care about the rest of his career.

The hours of play, practice, fitness work, rehab etc to get to the very top suggests he cares an awful lot.

I certainly don't find it hard to believe. There are so many professional athletes whose motivation changes as they get older. As a young, up and coming star many will have that energy of youth, and desire to make it in the game and increase their earning. After years in the sport, and now living a very comfortable living, many athletes can lose that competitive edge they had when they were younger. Some do, some don't. DJ definitely seems to be the sort of chap who is not that bothered about putting in the hours to try and be the best that he can be right now. Not only is he very comfortable in his life, LIV has now hugely increased his earnings beyond that. He is now earning more than he could ever have dreamed off had he stayed on PGA, and worked hard to remain as one of the top golfers. He can now just "chill", which does seem to be in his nature, looking from the outside.

I can think of the likes of Bjorn Borg, Michael Jordan (1st retirement), Lorena Ochoa, Ian Thorpe, Eric Cantona and David Bentley who all retired earlier than expected, and just lost that enthusiasm that they clearly once had. You then have Anthony Kim. No idea if the story is true, but the general feeling is that he effectively chose to retire early to protect his $10-20 million insurance policy payout for a career ending injury. I'm sure he had plenty of motivation to play golf to get where he was, but if the allegation is true, it seems that a huge wad of cash can do a good job at ending the motivation for some to play competitive sport.

 

[evemccc]

I certainly don't find it hard to believe. There are so many professional athletes whose motivation changes as they get older. As a young, up and coming star many will have that energy of youth, and desire to make it in the game and increase their earning. After years in the sport, and now living a very comfortable living, many athletes can lose that competitive edge they had when they were younger. Some do, some don't. DJ definitely seems to be the sort of chap who is not that bothered about putting in the hours to try and be the best that he can be right now. Not only is he very comfortable in his life, LIV has now hugely increased his earnings beyond that. He is now earning more than he could ever have dreamed off had he stayed on PGA, and worked hard to remain as one of the top golfers. He can now just "chill", which does seem to be in his nature, looking from the outside.

I can think of the likes of Bjorn Borg, Michael Jordan (1st retirement), Lorena Ochoa, Ian Thorpe, Eric Cantona and David Bentley who all retired earlier than expected, and just lost that enthusiasm that they clearly once had. You then have Anthony Kim. No idea if the story is true, but the general feeling is that he effectively chose to retire early to protect his $10-20 million insurance policy payout for a career ending injury. I'm sure he had plenty of motivation to play golf to get where he was, but if the allegation is true, it seems that a huge wad of cash can do a good job at ending the motivation for some to play competitive sport.

I’m not sure that David Bentley belongs in the same exalted company as Michael Jordan and Bjorn Borg

 

[Swango1980]

I’m not sure that David Bentley belongs in the same exalted company as Michael Jordan and Bjorn Borg

I know. I was very close to saying the exact same thing, by following his name with (yes, I've no idea why I've included him on this list). I didn't, because I knew everyone would think it without me saying it

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I’m not sure that David Bentley belongs in the same exalted company as Michael Jordan and Bjorn Borg

Also Jordan didn't exactly retire the first time, he went to another sport.

 

[Swango1980]

If LIV truly wanted to grow their brand and get in a new audience, without changing their format much, would a Netflix style "Full Swing" be a great solution? I know LIV players feature in Full Swing, although it is a program produced by the PGAT/Netflix, so they are really only on it as LIV all kicked off during filming.

These types of programs really do seem to give your sport exposure to very different people (along with your current fans). Even non-sporty people enjoy watching 40 minutes of staged drama, from zero to hero programs. Throw in some catchy background music, and the odd sob story and a few tears, you've basically drawn in millions of fans who can't get enough of this sort of thing. I can just imagine Bryson crying his eyes out, with a broken body, as he desperately tries to smash a ball 400 yards at the range, but cannot reach that mark. Then, in a competition at the end of the episode, driving the ball 401 yards and winning. More tears, but happy tears, along with dozens of replays of that drive, and a little speech from many of his peers about how great that drive was. Even if the drive was in the 1st round on the 14th hole (i.e. not critical), it'll be dressed up as a major turning point in the players confidence and drive to go on and win.

Anyway, that is Episode 1 sorted. Episode 2 can follow Ian Poulter as he identifies a scratch on one of his favourite Ferraris, but all is good in the end as he buys the latest model. Episode 3 follows Westwood, as he loses his accuracy off the tee, but is able to find a way to get that accuracy back again. Episode 4 follows Brooks during his struggles, but then he is much happier at the end (albeit, he'll look miserable at all times). Episode 5 follows DJ, as it begins with his really low points (playing golf). But, by the end, we see how happy he is, as he can spend his money on big parties, plenty of booze, cigarettes and other substances.

 

[Swango1980]

Also Jordan didn't exactly retire the first time, he went to another sport.

Retired from basketball. That was the point I was making, he lost his passion for the sport he worked so hard at, and retired.

You could argue Cantona didn't retire, because he found work as an actor. As I understand it, Bentley didn't retire. He ran a restaurant in Marbella, and invested in beach clubs. However, whilst he took part in that career, I think it was fair to say that he was not much motivated by football anymore

 

[Deleted member 21445]

They would need to make some money before worrying about tax!

Brilliant

 

[Imurg]

Apparently Dean Burmester is LIV-bound to join Louis's Team..


And a whole lot of people are going..."Sorry, who?"

 

[HeftyHacker]

If LIV truly wanted to grow their brand and get in a new audience, without changing their format much, would a Netflix style "Full Swing" be a great solution? I know LIV players feature in Full Swing, although it is a program produced by the PGAT/Netflix, so they are really only on it as LIV all kicked off during filming.







These types of programs really do seem to give your sport exposure to very different people (along with your current fans). Even non-sporty people enjoy watching 40 minutes of staged drama, from zero to hero programs. Throw in some catchy background music, and the odd sob story and a few tears, you've basically drawn in millions of fans who can't get enough of this sort of thing. I can just imagine Bryson crying his eyes out, with a broken body, as he desperately tries to smash a ball 400 yards at the range, but cannot reach that mark. Then, in a competition at the end of the episode, driving the ball 401 yards and winning. More tears, but happy tears, along with dozens of replays of that drive, and a little speech from many of his peers about how great that drive was. Even if the drive was in the 1st round on the 14th hole (i.e. not critical), it'll be dressed up as a major turning point in the players confidence and drive to go on and win.







Anyway, that is Episode 1 sorted. Episode 2 can follow Ian Poulter as he identifies a scratch on one of his favourite Ferraris, but all is good in the end as he buys the latest model. Episode 3 follows Westwood, as he loses his accuracy off the tee, but is able to find a way to get that accuracy back again. Episode 4 follows Brooks during his struggles, but then he is much happier at the end (albeit, he'll look miserable at all times). Episode 5 follows DJ, as it begins with his really low points (playing golf). But, by the end, we see how happy he is, as he can spend his money on big parties, plenty of booze, cigarettes and other substances.

I do actually think the LIV format works far better from a TV perspective. Less competitors, set number of events that they will all be present at, teams, an end of season championship.

The problem with the Full Swing is that there are so many people, all playing different tournaments at different times and no fixed prize at the end as such that it doesn't lend itself to the same drama as Drive to Survive.