LIV Golf

[Swango1980]

Why does LIV have little sporting integrity? Professional golfers playing for prizes, by the rules of golf - that's it in it's simplest terms, isn't it?

People have just come up with a baseless argument to try and form an argument against LIV.

You are the one that made the leap about sporting integrity and entertainment, in regards to the PGA. So, what was your point in relation to the PGA?

In relation to LIV, no issue with the guys out their competing. Of course they're all trying to win, it is not fixed. But, as has been pointed out, we have talked for over 400 pages about various issues. You should probably know all of our points by now, but as a reminder, the fact that LIV is pretty much a closed shop to the invited is a big negative to many fans, or the fact many of world's current top players want no part of it at the moment. That is the issue with sporting integrity, not too dissimilar to the fan objections to the European Super League in football.

 

[ColchesterFC]

They offered players significant sums of money to play - standard practice on the PGAT (see Rory McIlroy and Tiger Woods)

Players are contracted across the sporting world Phil, it's absolutely nothing new.

The lawsuits are a result of the actions of the PGAT and their media - Brandel Chamblee has overstepped the mark multiple times - and Patrick Reed is perfectly entitled to seek to right what he sees as a wrong.

Greg Norman - Jay Monahan - both as bad, and as good as each other. I posted the video of Monahan propagating hate over 9/11 a week or so back - so if you want to call out GN, then call out Monahan as well.

Seems as though LIV golf aren't keen on the discovery side of the court process judging by this article....

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/01/14/lynch-saudis-dodging-us-court-huge-liv-golf-impact/

"The Saudis have been frantically trying to evade any discovery. The Fund is claiming foreign sovereign immunity as an organ of the Saudi state, while Al-Rumayyan submitted to the court an affidavit saying that he would be exposed to a possible 20-year prison term under Saudi law if he were to disclose classified information."

They've filed a lawsuit in the Californian court system and are now trying to claim that they aren't subject to the jurisdiction of that court when it comes to discovery.

 

[Mel Smooth]

You are the one that made the leap about sporting integrity and entertainment, in regards to the PGA. So, what was your point in relation to the PGA?

In relation to LIV, no issue with the guys out their competing. Of course they're all trying to win, it is not fixed. But, as has been pointed out, we have talked for over 400 pages about various issues. You should probably know all of our points by now, but as a reminder, the fact that LIV is pretty much a closed shop to the invited is a big negative to many fans, or the fact many of world's current top players want no part of it at the moment. That is the issue with sporting integrity, not too dissimilar to the fan objections to the European Super League in football.

The PGA Tour is effectively a closed shop as well, anybody outside of the US would now need to be invited to take part - same as LIV

 

[Mel Smooth]

Seems as though LIV golf aren't keen on the discovery side of the court process judging by this article....

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/01/14/lynch-saudis-dodging-us-court-huge-liv-golf-impact/

"The Saudis have been frantically trying to evade any discovery. The Fund is claiming foreign sovereign immunity as an organ of the Saudi state, while Al-Rumayyan submitted to the court an affidavit saying that he would be exposed to a possible 20-year prison term under Saudi law if he were to disclose classified information."

They've filed a lawsuit in the Californian court system and are now trying to claim that they aren't subject to the jurisdiction of that court when it comes to discovery.

With all due respect, I wouldn't even wipe my dogs arse with anything written by Lynch.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The PGA Tour is effectively a closed shop as well, anybody outside of the US would now need to be invited to take part - same as LIV

Sorry but that’s not true - anyone can attempt to qualify for the PGAT

 

[Mel Smooth]

Sorry but that’s not true - anyone can attempt to qualify for the PGAT

Anybody can attempt to qualify for LIV...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Anybody can attempt to qualify for LIV...

How can they ? How many qualifying spots are open for the next event ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

How can they ? How many qualifying spots are open for the next event ?

Golfers can qualify trough the Asian Tour, they did multiple times last year. As for the next event, I don't know, as there's not been any information if they will go down the route of regular qualifying.

How does a player on the Asian Tour qualify for a PGAT event? (excluding invitation which we've already ascertained takes place)

 

[Swango1980]

The PGA Tour is effectively a closed shop as well, anybody outside of the US would now need to be invited to take part - same as LIV

So, you are telling me now that, if I am some random bloke, sau Joe Bloggs, and I am really good at golf, there is no definitive, guaranteed route to the PGA Tour unless I am invited? So, if I start winning events and climbing rankings / do really well on feeder tours / qualification school, I still need an invite.

Didn't realise that......or maybe you are just absolutely incorrect in your statement

 

[Mel Smooth]

So, you are telling me now that, if I am some random bloke, sau Joe Bloggs, and I am really good at golf, there is no definitive, guaranteed route to the PGA Tour unless I am invited? So, if I start winning events and climbing rankings / do really well on feeder tours / qualification school, I still need an invite.

Didn't realise that......or maybe you are just absolutely incorrect in your statement

I'm telling you that you can't earn enough OWGR points on the many of the tours, to earn a place on the PGA Tour. If you play golf on the KFT, or the DPWT, then you have a decent chance.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Golfers can qualify trough the Asian Tour, they did multiple times last year. As for the next event, I don't know, as there's not been any information if they will go down the route of regular qualifying.

How does a player on the Asian Tour qualify for a PGAT event? (excluding invitation which we've already ascertained takes place)

They can qualify through positions in other tournaments on other tours

Play in Monday qualifying


Gain entry from The KFT

Tom Kim managed it ?‍

 

[ColchesterFC]

With all due respect, I wouldn't even wipe my dogs arse with anything written by Lynch.

Of course you wouldn't because he's critical of LIV. But you're more than happy to accept puff pieces or podcasts from anyone that is favourable towards LIV.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Of course you wouldn't because he's critical of LIV. But you're more than happy to accept puff pieces or podcasts from anyone that is favourable towards LIV.

He's a PGA shill, almost comical with some of the diatribe he spouts.

I commented on a video somebody else posted the other day, which represents a relatively independent view.

Lynch is doing more harm than good to the current impasse in golf, and anybody supporting him is part of the problem, not part of the answer.


There are bellends on the LIV side as well, but none get the airtime that Lynch and Chamblee do - thank god.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

They can qualify through positions in other tournaments on other tours

Play in Monday qualifying


Gain entry from The KFT

Tom Kim managed it ?‍

It was has been widely reported that if the current OWGR system was in place Tom Kim wouldnt have made it to the PGA Tour via the Asian Tour, simply wouldnt have amassed the points needed.

However a player of that talent would im sure have got there via other means, just would have taken a lot longer.

For a player to crack into the worlds top 150 on the Asian Tour now , that golfer would have to pretty much dominate that tour whereas before that got you into the top 50.

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/what-a-joke-asian-tour-players-on-world-ranking-points

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/liv-golf-pro-shocked-lack-owgr-points-available-asian-tour

Its quite obvious from this to Jon Rahm that the points system is completely flawed, Tiger even said so.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It was has been widely reported that if the current OWGR system was in place Tom Kim wouldnt have made it to the PGA Tour via the Asian Tour, simply wouldnt have amassed the points needed.

However a player of that talent would im sure have got there via other means, just would have taken a lot longer.

For a player to crack into the worlds top 150 on the Asian Tour now , that golfer would have to pretty much dominate that tour whereas before that got you into the top 50.

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/what-a-joke-asian-tour-players-on-world-ranking-points

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/liv-golf-pro-shocked-lack-owgr-points-available-asian-tour

Its quite obvious from this to Jon Rahm that the points system is completely flawed, Tiger even said so.

Tom Kim didn’t get on the PGAT using Ranking points

He gained entry into the 2020 Open through Qualfying series

He then gained entry into the Genesis Scottish Open - he came third which got him into the Open again and his position there got him Temp membership on the PGAT - then he finished well to gain his tour card for this season and then won an event the next week

It wasn’t because of the World Rankings

 

[Backsticks]

I'm telling you that you can't earn enough OWGR points on the many of the tours, to earn a place on the PGA Tour.

And you are correct, and that is as it should be with a solid ranking system. The other tours have weaker fields. Success on one of them doesnt mean a player is of PGAT standard. Too many pathways to the top will not filter in the right players. The qualifying school is a good method.

 

[ColchesterFC]

He's a PGA shill, almost comical with some of the diatribe he spouts.

I commented on a video somebody else posted the other day, which represents a relatively independent view.

Lynch is doing more harm than good to the current impasse in golf, and anybody supporting him is part of the problem, not part of the answer.


There are bellends on the LIV side as well, but none get the airtime that Lynch and Chamblee do - thank god.

How about Bloomberg? <--- I know nothing about them

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...laims-immunity-in-pga-liv-golf-us-court-fight

 

[Mel Smooth]

How about Bloomberg? <--- I know nothing about them

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...laims-immunity-in-pga-liv-golf-us-court-fight

A much more balance report than the frothy mouthed Lynch could muster...


Saudi Arabia’s $676 billion sovereign wealth fund argued it has sovereign immunity and can’t be forced to provide evidence in a US legal fight between PGA Tour Inc. and LIV Golf, a newly launched rival backed by the oil-rich kingdom.
Public Investment Fund and its Governor Yasir Al-Rumayyan on Tuesday asked a federal judge in California to quash a request by the PGA Tour to compel their testimony and produce documents for a lawsuit accusing LIV of unfair competition for offering players lucrative deals to break their PGA contracts.
PIF said it has “high-level oversight” of LIV, but doesn’t manage or control the company’s day-to-day operations. In their filing, the fund and Al-Rumayyan said they had offered to provide discovery in response to “narrowed requests,” but that PGA pushed back, favoring an “all-or-nothing approach.”
Forcing the Saudi fund to accept US jurisdiction in the golf dispute would set a “dangerous precedent” by allowing it to be sued every time there’s a legal dispute in a company it invests in, including Uber Technologies Inc., Starbucks Corp. and Walmart Inc., according to the court document.
The fund claims the PGA isn’t really interested in getting documents, but instead wants to make its lawsuit about the government of Saudi Arabia, according to the filing.

A lawyer for the PGA didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

Essentially, if the PGA want to nosey round Saudi funding of LIV, then everybody will be entitled to nosey round Saudi funding of anything - which ironically includes some PGAT sponsors.

 

[ColchesterFC]

A much more balance report than the frothy mouthed Lynch could muster...


Saudi Arabia’s $676 billion sovereign wealth fund argued it has sovereign immunity and can’t be forced to provide evidence in a US legal fight between PGA Tour Inc. and LIV Golf, a newly launched rival backed by the oil-rich kingdom.
Public Investment Fund and its Governor Yasir Al-Rumayyan on Tuesday asked a federal judge in California to quash a request by the PGA Tour to compel their testimony and produce documents for a lawsuit accusing LIV of unfair competition for offering players lucrative deals to break their PGA contracts.
PIF said it has “high-level oversight” of LIV, but doesn’t manage or control the company’s day-to-day operations. In their filing, the fund and Al-Rumayyan said they had offered to provide discovery in response to “narrowed requests,” but that PGA pushed back, favoring an “all-or-nothing approach.”
Forcing the Saudi fund to accept US jurisdiction in the golf dispute would set a “dangerous precedent” by allowing it to be sued every time there’s a legal dispute in a company it invests in, including Uber Technologies Inc., Starbucks Corp. and Walmart Inc., according to the court document.
The fund claims the PGA isn’t really interested in getting documents, but instead wants to make its lawsuit about the government of Saudi Arabia, according to the filing.

A lawyer for the PGA didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

Essentially, if the PGA want to nosey round Saudi funding of LIV, then everybody will be entitled to nosey round Saudi funding of anything - which ironically includes some PGAT sponsors.

So you're happy with LIV wanting to sue the PGA in a Californian courtroom but then claiming that they have sovereign immunity and can't be compelled to abide by a ruling from that very same courtroom?

 

[Mel Smooth]

So you're happy with LIV wanting to sue the PGA in a Californian courtroom but then claiming that they have sovereign immunity and can't be compelled to abide by a ruling from that very same courtroom?

Well, if that's their legal entitlement, why shouldn't they?

Maybe they could take it all over to Saudi and do it in the courts there?