LIV Golf

[PhilTheFragger]

All golfers pick and choose their events, do you even realise how contradictory your arguments are - players are switching between tours all the time - usually based on what prize money is available right?

Why can't LIV be part of that landscape? LIV is only a closed shop because two tours have shut down the opportunities for their players to play where they choose - it's well documented - LIV tried to negotiate with both the PGAT and DPWT - that would have seen golfers playing across all tours including LIV - they both turned down the opportunity - "It's dead in the water" was the thoughts right? But it wasn't, was it....

LiV …….. negotiating……. Oh that’s good, very good indeed ……oh my……..chortle…..snort ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All golfers pick and choose their events, do you even realise how contradictory your arguments are - players are switching between tours all the time - usually based on what prize money is available right?

Why can't LIV be part of that landscape? LIV is only a closed shop because two tours have shut down the opportunities for their players to play where they choose - it's well documented - LIV tried to negotiate with both the PGAT and DPWT - that would have seen golfers playing across all tours including LIV - they both turned down the opportunity - "It's dead in the water" was the thoughts right? But it wasn't, was it....

LIV is an invite only closed tour with players only able to play if they are invited and some on contracts

Players are able to play on Tours that don’t directly provide competition against each other

This time last year did you think to yourself
“What we really need is another golf tour putting on golf events in the same area we already have golf events”

The PGAT and ET work together because they host events in two different areas.

And yes they are going to turn down working with LIV because they only people that would suit is LIV - LIV was always going to be a closed invite only , contracted players that “must” play all LIV events

Your bias has made you blind to anything beyond LIV .

 

[BubbaP]

LiV …….. negotiating……. Oh that’s good, very good indeed ……oh my……..chortle…..snort ?

IMO a decent debate on going via the posts either side of this one. Not actually sure what the post adds, but would you concede the statements below infer some negotiations were ongoing prior to the decision being made?

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/we-wanted-to-be-on-the-right-side-of-history-dp-world-tour-chairman

 

[Mel Smooth]

LiV …….. negotiating……. Oh that’s good, very good indeed ……oh my……..chortle…..snort ?

Check the facts Phillip. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I’m surprised the LiV tour, it’s players and fans want anything to do with the other tours given all the complaints they’ve made about them.

 

[Mel Smooth]

LIV is an invite only closed tour with players only able to play if they are invited and some on contracts

Players are able to play on Tours that don’t directly provide competition against each other

This time last year did you think to yourself
“What we really need is another golf tour putting on golf events in the same area we already have golf events”

The PGAT and ET work together because they host events in two different areas.

And yes they are going to turn down working with LIV because they only people that would suit is LIV - LIV was always going to be a closed invite only , contracted players that “must” play all LIV events

Your bias has made you blind to anything beyond LIV .

On the day a lad from Yorkshire has secured his DPWT future on the back of an invite to a tournament, the notion that players being invited to tournaments is wrong seems a little ironic tbh.


I'll ask again, are the two tours who have attempted to block players from competing going to benefit from those players being absent, and if so, can you explain how that will be the case, given we've all seen Cam Smith win an event in his home country infront of appreciative crowds.

You'd rather watch golf competetions with depleted fields, yes?

 

[ColchesterFC]

I'll ask again, are the two tours who have attempted to block players from competing going to benefit from those players being absent, and if so, can you explain how that will be the case, given we've all seen Cam Smith win an event in his home country infront of appreciative crowds.

I would imagine that the biggest benefit to the tours from banning players from competing will be to act as a deterrent to others who might have been thinking of making the switch.

 

[BubbaP]

I’m surprised the LiV tour, it’s players and fans want anything to do with the other tours given all the complaints they’ve made about them.

Maybe it is down to definitions, but to my mind LIV have never wanted to be a "Tour", always thought they were gunning for a league. Lot of people don't like that, and I understand that.
This week players who have been involved in LIV have been playing on the Sunshine Tour, the Asian Tour, the Japan Tour, the Australasia Tour, and via co-sanctioning the DPWT. It's almost as if they were independent contractors ? ?
Obviously understand how big $$ makes that complicated to happen everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

On the day a lad from Yorkshire has secured his DPWT future on the back of an invite to a tournament, the notion that players being invited to tournaments is wrong seems a little ironic tbh.

Every single golf event over the decades has had sponsors invites for various and many times used to bring in up and coming pros giving them a chance to kick start their career - this weekend a perfect example

But all those events also have multiple other ways for players to gain entry

Surely you aren’t trying to compare it to the LIV tour where the only way a player can play is if they are invited to join the tour and even then a player may not be able to play in every event and may lose their place depending on who else they invite and of course irrelevant to performance

I'll ask again, are the two tours who have attempted to block players from competing going to benefit from those players being absent,

They may benefit they may not - it depends on what the criteria is - the tours are still getting the viewers , still getting the crowds , they still have 99% of the pros trying to play in their events

and if so, can you explain how that will be the case, given we've all seen Cam Smith win an event in his home country infront of appreciative crowds.

You'd rather watch golf competetions with depleted fields, yes?

Cam Smith and all the other Aussies were able to play in any Aus event before LIV anyway ?‍ what difference has LIV made for the Aus PGA ? Zero ? It’s a comp in his own home tour and he has always been able to play in it

None of the golf comps I have watched this year have been of any less quality and I suspect the same will be next year

 

[BubbaP]

I would imagine that the biggest benefit to the tours from banning players from competing will be to act as a deterrent to others who might have been thinking of making the switch.

Agree, but is 'switch' really the correct/only word, did it have to be one or the other? - expect this is where the legal stuff will go.

Were players viewed as 'employees'?
Quotes like this haven’t helped IMO
"trying to take our players away"

It is all subtleties I know. Perhaps the mess mens pro golf is currently in was inevitable.

 

[Backsticks]

I'll ask again, are the two tours who have attempted to block players from competing going to benefit from those players being absent, and if so, can you explain how that will be the case, given we've all seen Cam Smith win an event in his home country infront of appreciative crowds.

This question has been answered many times here in many different ways. Everybody else seems to have have understood the explanation.
But we can write it out again : The two tours benefit, as they are deterring other players from joining LIV, and ensuring the quality of their own week in week out fields. This is why both tours have pursued this strategy. Both of them understand it. We understand it. Its why the DP is going to court to exclude them. And, since Smith, they seem to be succeeding and have stemmed the exodus, and only a handful of marquee players have been lost. DP has gained by strengthening its link to the pgat and appearances by its players. The PGAT gains by offering the great majority of the worlds best golfers in its presentation.
I dont think there is a simpler way to explain it.

 

[doublebogey7]

All golfers pick and choose their events, do you even realise how contradictory your arguments are - players are switching between tours all the time - usually based on what prize money is available right?

Why can't LIV be part of that landscape? LIV is only a closed shop because two tours have shut down the opportunities for their players to play where they choose - it's well documented - LIV tried to negotiate with both the PGAT and DPWT - that would have seen golfers playing across all tours including LIV - they both turned down the opportunity - "It's dead in the water" was the thoughts right? But it wasn't, was it....

All players cannot pick and choose which events they play in, or at least those not contracted to LiV can't and never have been permitted to. Before LiV came along players could choose provided they got the relevant permissions from their home tours. It was LiV that changed that not the PGAT or the DPWT

I am sure if, as you say, it's well documented that LiV offered to introduce their tour such that all players could have entered their competitions without an invite you would be happy to point us in the direction of those documents.

In any case if LiV wished to start an open tour, they could have done so without such an agreement, so what was or is stopping them?

 

[AussieKB]

Every single golf event over the decades has had sponsors invites for various and many times used to bring in up and coming pros giving them a chance to kick start their career - this weekend a perfect example

But all those events also have multiple other ways for players to gain entry

Surely you aren’t trying to compare it to the LIV tour where the only way a player can play is if they are invited to join the tour and even then a player may not be able to play in every event and may lose their place depending on who else they invite and of course irrelevant to performance



They may benefit they may not - it depends on what the criteria is - the tours are still getting the viewers , still getting the crowds , they still have 99% of the pros trying to play in their events



Cam Smith and all the other Aussies were able to play in any Aus event before LIV anyway ?‍ what difference has LIV made for the Aus PGA ? Zero ? It’s a comp in his own home tour and he has always been able to play in it

None of the golf comps I have watched this year have been of any less quality and I suspect the same will be next year

So not have the defending Champion play will enhance that event ?

 

[Backsticks]

So not have the defending Champion play will enhance that event ?

Yes. Clearly.

 

[ColchesterFC]

You'd rather watch golf competetions with depleted fields, yes?

This line of attack seems a bit hypocritical from such a big fan of LIV. You tell us how much you have enjoyed watching LIV this past year which is the very definition of golf with "depleted fields". It seems as though you're saying that LIV golf with depleted fields is great but PGA Tour golf with depleted fields is rubbish.

 

[Backsticks]

This line of attack seems a bit hypocritical from such a big fan of LIV. You tell us how much you have enjoyed watching LIV this past year which is the very definition of golf with "depleted fields". It seems as though you're saying that LIV golf with depleted fields is great but PGA Tour golf with depleted fields is rubbish.

And that with a PGAT field that is only a tenth as depleted as a LIV field.

 

[Mel Smooth]

This line of attack seems a bit hypocritical from such a big fan of LIV. You tell us how much you have enjoyed watching LIV this past year which is the very definition of golf with "depleted fields". It seems as though you're saying that LIV golf with depleted fields is great but PGA Tour golf with depleted fields is rubbish.

I’ve enjoyed watching lots of golf this past year. How many events on any tours have strong fields - not many in reality - and the LIV fields have been good considering it’s a start up.

Has anybody actually answered my question yet as to how banning players benefits either the DPWT or the PGAT?

The stock answer seems to be that it’s stopped other players leaving, but if they weren’t going to be banned, then that wouldn’t matter would it - they’d still be able to play in the events that they’d ordinary have chosen to play in.

 

[Backsticks]

Has anybody actually answered my question yet as to how banning players benefits either the DPWT or the PGAT?

They have. Many times.

 

[doublebogey7]

I’ve enjoyed watching lots of golf this past year. How many events on any tours have strong fields - not many in reality - and the LIV fields have been good considering it’s a start up.

Has anybody actually answered my question yet as to how banning players benefits either the DPWT or the PGAT?

The stock answer seems to be that it’s stopped other players leaving, but if they weren’t going to be banned, then that wouldn’t matter would it - they’d still be able to play in the events that they’d ordinary have chosen to play in.

So now you're telling us that as well as 14 LiV tour events players would have still committed to playing circa 20-25 events on the PGAT or BPWT, whatever happened to the wish to spend more time with the family.

 

[SteveW86]

How on earth has this thread averaged 32 posts a day since it was created?