LIV Golf

[Deleted member 1147]

In terms of football, attendance figures are always in relation to the number of tickets sold, not the actual Matchday attendance.

There’ll be loads at the World Cup that go unused, particularly for the lower key games.

At world cups the stadia are normally rammed

 

[AussieKB]

Why are you discussing the Australian PGA on this thread, it has zero relevance.

I did say all three tours....that includes LIV.

 

[Swango1980]

I see it differently, have just been watching players from all three tours enjoying their golf, a great turnout of spectators for Brisbane, so for me it is a win win win situation and great to see top players competing here again.

Which events, where golfers compete from different tours, do golfers not enjoy it? Even if LIV players are involved?

You are also referring to the Australian PGA Championship. Having had a quick look through the field, it appears 90% are from Australia, and the only names I seemed to recognise were Smith, Scott, Ogilvy, Leishman, Lewis and Howell. So, it is not exactly a stellar field, it seems to be the dort of field I'd expect from the Australian PGA Championship.

If the Irish Open had McIlroy, Lowry, Harrington, Clark and McDowell, and no other of the worlds leading golfers, I am sure the golfers would still enjoy it, and the fans would love it and go watch. You could say the same thing about most other countries, if they have one or 2 of their local top golfers show up, people will go and watch it.

How does this have anything to do with LIV though? If you are saying that the PGAT ban has effectively meant players like Smith have felt they need to go and play in Oz, that is not the game plan of LIV. And, it says more about Cameron Smith or the Australian PGA Championship, in that either Smith "can't be bothered" supporting his national open if he could have what he wanted (i.e. not banned from PGAT), or the Australian PGA Championship is not really worth turning up for for elite golfers.

 

[Bdill93]

Thats only on a micro level. Sure, this tournament is better itself for the inclusion. But the consequences of that on a regular basis, is a weaker PGAT, and so weaker golf overall, if top forces are split.
It doesnt follow that being good today, means repeating it in the long term is good. The general opinion, LIVists aside, is that it would be bad.

Other than saying "it will be bad" what examples of making it worse for golf can you give?

 

[doublebogey7]

Which events, where golfers compete from different tours, do golfers not enjoy it? Even if LIV players are involved?

You are also referring to the Australian PGA Championship. Having had a quick look through the field, it appears 90% are from Australia, and the only names I seemed to recognise were Smith, Scott, Ogilvy, Leishman, Lewis and Howell. So, it is not exactly a stellar field, it seems to be the dort of field I'd expect from the Australian PGA Championship.

If the Irish Open had McIlroy, Lowry, Harrington, Clark and McDowell, and no other of the worlds leading golfers, I am sure the golfers would still enjoy it, and the fans would love it and go watch. You could say the same thing about most other countries, if they have one or 2 of their local top golfers show up, people will go and watch it.

How does this have anything to do with LIV though? If you are saying that the PGAT ban has effectively meant players like Smith have felt they need to go and play in Oz, that is not the game plan of LIV. And, it says more about Cameron Smith or the Australian PGA Championship, in that either Smith "can't be bothered" supporting his national open if he could have what he wanted (i.e. not banned from PGAT), or the Australian PGA Championship is not really worth turning up for for elite golfers.

As I said in a much earlier post, Cam Smith played in both the last Australian PGA and the last Australian Open, so I'm not sure how his moving to LiV has had any effect on his ability to play these events this year.

 

[AussieKB]

Which events, where golfers compete from different tours, do golfers not enjoy it? Even if LIV players are involved?

You are also referring to the Australian PGA Championship. Having had a quick look through the field, it appears 90% are from Australia, and the only names I seemed to recognise were Smith, Scott, Ogilvy, Leishman, Lewis and Howell. So, it is not exactly a stellar field, it seems to be the dort of field I'd expect from the Australian PGA Championship.

If the Irish Open had McIlroy, Lowry, Harrington, Clark and McDowell, and no other of the worlds leading golfers, I am sure the golfers would still enjoy it, and the fans would love it and go watch. You could say the same thing about most other countries, if they have one or 2 of their local top golfers show up, people will go and watch it.

How does this have anything to do with LIV though? If you are saying that the PGAT ban has effectively meant players like Smith have felt they need to go and play in Oz, that is not the game plan of LIV. And, it says more about Cameron Smith or the Australian PGA Championship, in that either Smith "can't be bothered" supporting his national open if he could have what he wanted (i.e. not banned from PGAT), or the Australian PGA Championship is not really worth turning up for for elite golfers.

Rory McIlroy says it's going to be "hard to stomach" seeing 18 LIV Golf players at Wentworth on the DP World Tour.

 

[Mel Smooth]

So you think LIV will change their model to allow players to just turn up for their “premium” events and not had to follow the LIV mantra ?

And which LIV events are “premium” ?

And the majors are played where they are because that’s the biggest markets for golf - even LIV know that hence why 80% will be in the US

Events happen all over the globe 12 months of the year already and they did before LIV came along - they haven’t added anything new beyond a number of rich comps

LIV is in its infancy, once the stand off between the tours is resolved, I’d expect to see players able to move between all the tours, which was obviously the intention from a LIV standpoint from the start.

When that happens, I think the series will naturally evolve into a position where events have more popularity than others, much as we see on other tours. Sponsors and money will similarly play a key part.

Even in the beta year, there were clearly events in the US that were more popular than others.

 

[Backsticks]

Other than saying "it will be bad" what examples of making it worse for golf can you give?

Fewer tournaments with a high proportion of the worlds best golfers competing together.

 

[Bdill93]

Fewer tournaments with a high proportion of the worlds best golfers competing together.

I think that will just make the Majors better to be honest.

They'll be like the champions league of golf events

 

[Swango1980]

Rory McIlroy says it's going to be "hard to stomach" seeing 18 LIV Golf players at Wentworth on the DP World Tour.

That was loud.

So, from that you are assuming he won't enjoy playing golf at Wentworth, the other golfers won't enjoy playing at Wentworth and the fans won't be interested in watching the golf?

Whereas, from that I just get the impression that he is expressing the fact he does not agree with them playing there. That is all.

 

[Swango1980]

As I said in a much earlier post, Cam Smith played in both the last Australian PGA and the last Australian Open, so I'm not sure how his moving to LiV has had any effect on his ability to play these events this year.

So, just to remind me, what was the win-win situation. I may be wrong, I thought you were trying to say the presence of LIV has created a win-win situation due to the "quality" field playing in Oz. Now you are saying Cameron Smith always played in Oz anyway? Is it the other players you meant, like Howell and Ogilvy?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

LIV is in its infancy, once the stand off between the tours is resolved, I’d expect to see players able to move between all the tours, which was obviously the intention from a LIV standpoint from the start.

When that happens, I think the series will naturally evolve into a position where events have more popularity than others, much as we see on other tours. Sponsors and money will similarly play a key part.

Even in the beta year, there were clearly events in the US that were more popular than others.

Sorry but are you really suggesting that players will be able to move freely between LIV and other tours ?

So all those players that are on contracts will be ok to miss LiV events to go and play events on other tours instead

LiV doesn’t have any “sponsers” - the players with contracts have to play every single LiV event

There is no freedom of movement with LIV - it’s a contract that the players have to stick too , they can’t pick and choose just like players from other tours can’t pick to play in LIV events

There isn’t going to be some sort of peaceful resolution- LIV Tour can’t stand up on its own without Saudi wealth - and that’s not going to change. It’s unsustainable

 

[Backsticks]

Sorry but are you really suggesting that players will be able to move freely between LIV and other tours ?

So all those players that are on contracts will be ok to miss LiV events to go and play events on other tours instead

LiV doesn’t have any “sponsers” - the players with contracts have to play every single LiV event

There is no freedom of movement with LIV - it’s a contract that the players have to stick too , they can’t pick and choose just like players from other tours can’t pick to play in LIV events

There isn’t going to be some sort of peaceful resolution- LIV Tour can’t stand up on its own without Saudi wealth - and that’s not going to change. It’s unsustainable

Exactly. LIV wants a closed shop of 54. Not players dropping in and out from other tours. I dont think there will be a peaceful solution either. LIV is dead in the water ad a serious tour, and just hasnt sunk yet.

 

[Bdill93]

Sorry but are you really suggesting that players will be able to move freely between LIV and other tours ?

So all those players that are on contracts will be ok to miss LiV events to go and play events on other tours instead

LiV doesn’t have any “sponsers” - the players with contracts have to play every single LiV event

There is no freedom of movement with LIV - it’s a contract that the players have to stick too , they can’t pick and choose just like players from other tours can’t pick to play in LIV events

There isn’t going to be some sort of peaceful resolution- LIV Tour can’t stand up on its own without Saudi wealth - and that’s not going to change. It’s unsustainable

They have to play in the 14 LIV events but have a free calendar for 38 weeks of the year to play in other events. Ill note - the PGA tour are saying their top X players will play the top 12 events next year with increased prize pools so its almost the same damn thing.

You don't know what's coming for 2023 in LIV, they might have sponsors for every team lined up? Your points are just negative speculation and factually wrong.

 

[Backsticks]

W

LIV is in its infancy, once the stand off between the tours is resolved, I’d expect to see players able to move between all the tours, which was obviously the intention from a LIV standpoint from the start.

When that happens, I think the series will naturally evolve into a position where events have more popularity than others, much as we see on other tours. Sponsors and money will similarly play a key part.

Even in the beta year, there were clearly events in the US that were more popular than others.

Why does this - that whats liv intended all along - story come from ?
Or is that revisionist facts given that they have failed to recruit the pgat cream that certainly was their original goal.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They have to play in the 14 LIV events but have a free calendar for 38 weeks of the year to play in other events. Ill note - the PGA tour are saying their top X players will play the top 12 events next year with increased prize pools so its almost the same damn thing.

So as I said - a LIV contract player has to play in every single LIV event - they can’t miss one out to go an play in an event on another tour. So what’s the point you are trying to counter ?

And it’s not “almost the same damn thing” - the PGAT players are not “required” to play in the top 12 events - they can miss every single one if they wish and play elsewhere

So explain how it’s the “same thing”

You don't know what's coming for 2023 in LIV, they might have sponsors for every team lined up? Your points are just negative speculation and factually wrong.

“Might” ? Is that the same “might” have a mainstream Telly deal that didn’t appear , and all the other rumours that “might” have happened

So basically it’s factually correct that their teams right now have no sponsors, their events have no sponsors - so “factually” -I’m correct

 

[Swango1980]

They have to play in the 14 LIV events but have a free calendar for 38 weeks of the year to play in other events. Ill note - the PGA tour are saying their top X players will play the top 12 events next year with increased prize pools so its almost the same damn thing.

You don't know what's coming for 2023 in LIV, they might have sponsors for every team lined up? Your points are just negative speculation and factually wrong.

Yes, but the players are locked into 14 of those specific events. No other tour demands a player MUST play in any specific event, big or large, so they are effectively free to do as they please with their calender.

LIV players are locked into 14 LIV events (so that rules out the other tour events happening at the same time immediately). The top LIV players would presumably want to play the 4 Majors and the 4 WGC's? That takes up 24 weeks. How many weeks does the average / top tour player play in a year? If they are locked into 14 LIV events, it doesn't leave them a lot of wriggle room to play outside of LIV and the biggest world events.

 

[BubbaP]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-elevated-events-schedule-for-2023-players-jay-monahan

Monahan said that "top players" were committed to competing in 16 tour events—the 13 elevated tournaments plus three others of their choosing

But still being worked out..
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/rahm-rule-tour-says-players-allowed-skip-1-elevated-event

 

[Mel Smooth]

W
Why does this - that whats liv intended all along - story come from ?
Or is that revisionist facts given that they have failed to recruit the pgat cream that certainly was their original goal.

Why don’t you check out some of the LIV statements from when the series launched, it’s got nothing to do with who they have or haven’t recruited.

They repeatedly said they wanted to fit into the ‘golfing ecosystem’ well documented, Norman was repeatedly quoted as saying players should be able to play where they want. It’s really not hard to find that information.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Sorry but are you really suggesting that players will be able to move freely between LIV and other tours ?

So all those players that are on contracts will be ok to miss LiV events to go and play events on other tours instead

LiV doesn’t have any “sponsers” - the players with contracts have to play every single LiV event

There is no freedom of movement with LIV - it’s a contract that the players have to stick too , they can’t pick and choose just like players from other tours can’t pick to play in LIV events

There isn’t going to be some sort of peaceful resolution- LIV Tour can’t stand up on its own without Saudi wealth - and that’s not going to change. It’s unsustainable

Do you think if an agreement could be made where any player (Rory, Xander, Rahm, Scottie etc) could play a limited number of LIV events, that LIV wouldn’t accommodate them.

Of course they would.