LIV Golf

[BubbaP]

Here's the reality of the situation:
1) The OWGR system was fine until LIV told us that it wasn't.
2) The PGAT was the greatest tour on earth until Phil M. told us that it wasn't.
3) 72 hole stroke play was the best way to play tournament golf until 8 months ago GN told us that the
Future of golf was 54 hole team play.

Now, the question is: Will the golfing public fall for that nonsense?
Players CHOSE to go to an exhibition tour that didn't have point and now want their cake and eat it to.

? 'the reality' or your reality?
Alternative view....
1) The OWGR changed its rules in August, that wasn't anything to do with LIV. The two big names talking about it in last week are nothing to do with LIV. (Rent free?)
2) The PGA Tour was, and is a good tour IMO. But unless in a bubble there was plenty of criticism of aspects of it pre 2022. In fact plenty on this forum. Having essentially one employer to choose from (for the top players) can limit candid comment to a degree.
3) 72 hole regular strokeplay is the best for the majors and a number of other premium events IMO. Many people, including several on this forum, have suggested the monotony of the same thing, week after week after week perhaps isn't what all of the public wants.
For clarity, not saying they want the LIV product either. Time will tell I guess.
If it is so bad, no doubt it will fail and disappear soon, so why the obsession with it?
It's almost as if you want your beloved PGAT (cake) and you want something to keep criticising also (more cake) ???

 

[Backsticks]

For the record Rory and Rahn think LIV players should play if they meet the criteria.

Where is that recorded ?

 

[Backsticks]

A true golf fan never worries about who's not there. You can only play who's in front of you.

But you have to beat people that the world regards as the best for that major to have credibility. Its only a hypothetical, as they will all be in all majors whatever tour they play in : but if Hovland, Zalatoris, Schauffle, Cantlay, Homa, Finau turned Saudi, and were not in the majors, they wouldnt be majors any more. They would still be reasonably competitive tournaments, and a step above an average LIV one. But not as prestigious a win as a PGAT elevated event as they are today. The asterisk would be beside their names.

 

[Backsticks]

It’s not just the players, as a fan I want these guys in the majors.

These guys will all be in the majors. Nobody will miss out, whatever tour they play on.

 

[Bdill93]

A true golf fan never worries about who's not there. You can only play who's in front of you. The reason being is that players miss tournaments for all kind of reason......like DJ falling down a flight of stairs, Tiger getting knee surgery, etc.....If the players don't qualify, the tournaments go on and the ones that get misty eyed because a player is missing need to check their emotions.

For the record Rory and Rahn think LIV players should play if they meet the criteria. LIV fans seem to conveniently leave off the last part.

A true golf fan or a traditional golf fan?

I don’t think injuries and years out are an equal argument to LIV either. Not allowing a selected group of players to play in a major due to what league they play their golf in is entirely different.

A lot of the guys on LIV who are currently qualified are so because they have done well in past majors, we’re not talking 1-2 guys either, but off the top of my head maybe 7+at this point. They would be actively playing, fit to participate and yet simply not allowed by the powers that control qualification.

Rory might not care who is in the field he beats but as fans we know there’s a good 8 seriously talented guys missing that could also be up there.

I’ll stress that I am aware these guys haven’t lost their ability to play majors yet. And I accept that guys entering LIV without already having major exemptions in place shouldn’t qualify if undeserved.

Also - this is only for now. In 5 years time some of them might not be playing strong enough golf to be there and that’s fine (Bryson springs to mind). There’s only a few guys who will carry exemptions past 2030 - and mostly in the masters. But while they qualify they should be allowed to play and in the interim years the whole situation might be cleared up between the PGA, LIV and major qualification

 

[Backsticks]

If McIroy were to win one of the four next year, and LIV golfers arent there, or even if the only ones there are those with access as recent major winners, then he knows, that we wouldnt regard it as a real major. He would be still stuck on four. He wants them all there, LIV or not - because he doesnt want to lose a single chance to win a bona fide major.

 

[Backsticks]

The situation has to be cleared up in the next month, for Masters invitations. Announcement fixing the owgr, or back door fix to give direct entry to top 10 LIVers if not already directly eligible or something like that.
OWGR needs to fix itself and be relevant again.

 

[Dando]

If McIroy were to win one of the four next year, and LIV golfers arent there, or even if the only ones there are those with access as recent major winners, then he knows, that we wouldnt regard it as a real major. He would be still stuck on four. He wants them all there, LIV or not - because he doesnt want to lose a single chance to win a bona fide major.

If Rory wins “one of the four” next year then he’ll have 5 majors regardless of the field.

Who’s the “we” who wouldn’t regard it as a real major?

 

[Swango1980]

If McIroy were to win one of the four next year, and LIV golfers arent there, or even if the only ones there are those with access as recent major winners, then he knows, that we wouldnt regard it as a real major. He would be still stuck on four. He wants them all there, LIV or not - because he doesnt want to lose a single chance to win a bona fide major.

Well, that is rubbish. YOU might not regard it as a real major, but I'm sure Rory won't care one bit what Backsticks thinks.

If you think that low of a win in a Major though, I guess every single other event win, and in particular LIV wins, are virtually meaningless. I suppose anyone who won a Major when Tiger was out injured is not considered to have won a major as well?

 

[AussieKB]

YEP>without Chase Keopka the majors stop being a major......LOL!

Or maybe Min-Gyu Cho, Zander Lombard, Scott Vincent or Matt Ford all who played in last Open....
have you heard of them ? I haven't, but hey they look good to play in the PGAT Majors....

 

[Mel Smooth]

Including Smith, 20% of the top 20 players in the last Major - were LIV players, in total they made up 13% of the field.

There is absolutely no basis to any argument that the Majors are not diminished if they don't play.

 

[Swango1980]

Including Smith, 20% of the top 20 players in the last Major - were LIV players, in total they made up 13% of the field.

There is absolutely no basis to any argument that the Majors are not diminished if they don't play.

Which of those 20% will not play in the Majors next year. I know it has been asked a thousand times, but I don't recall seeing an answer

 

[Mel Smooth]

Which of those 20% will not play in the Majors next year. I know it has been asked a thousand times, but I don't recall seeing an answer

The ones that don't meet the qualifying criteria, which applies to any golfers hoping to get a spot.

 

[Swango1980]

The ones that don't meet the qualifying criteria, which applies to any golfers hoping to get a spot.

Names please. I already understand that people who don't meet qualify criteria do not play. That is blindingly obvious.

 

[Backsticks]

Well, that is rubbish. YOU might not regard it as a real major, but I'm sure Rory won't care one bit what Backsticks thinks.

If you think that low of a win in a Major though, I guess every single other event win, and in particular LIV wins, are virtually meaningless. I suppose anyone who won a Major when Tiger was out injured is not considered to have won a major as well?

True, he wont care what I think. But he surely wants to win a real major, not a partial one.
A player or two missing a major because they trip over a football, or their wife is having a child is one thing. But a bunch of top golfers not being in them because of a commercial spat, would make those tournaments instantly, no longer majors. If Liv entices more to defect, you could conceivably have 20 good golfers playing LIV but excluded from the majors. Majors have to have everybody. That is the point.
Its an interesting discussion, but ultimately moot. They will all be there. No major wants to shoot itself in the head.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Which of those 20% will not play in the Majors next year. I know it has been asked a thousand times, but I don't recall seeing an answer

And which that aren’t exempt would be considered a loss to the events?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Names please. I already understand that people who don't meet qualify criteria do not play. That is blindingly obvious.

Off the top of my head, Sadom Kaewkanjana would probably miss out.

 

[AussieKB]

And which that aren’t exempt would be considered a loss to the events?

If you cannot work that out on your own, then there is no point continuing this discussion.

 

[Dando]

True, he wont care what I think. But he surely wants to win a real major, not a partial one.
A player or two missing a major because they trip over a football, or their wife is having a child is one thing. But a bunch of top golfers not being in them because of a commercial spat, would make those tournaments instantly, no longer majors. If Liv entices more to defect, you could conceivably have 20 good golfers playing LIV but excluded from the majors. Majors have to have everybody. That is the point.
Its an interesting discussion, but ultimately moot. They will all be there. No major wants to shoot itself in the head.

It will be a “real major”

 

[doublebogey7]

Including Smith, 20% of the top 20 players in the last Major - were LIV players, in total they made up 13% of the field.

There is absolutely no basis to any argument that the Majors are not diminished if they don't play.

If LiV players wish to enter next year's open championship, assuming the R&A are true to their word (and I expect them to be), there will be no one stopping them. They may have to go through pre-qualifying as anyone not already qualified will have to do. The criteria for such events are pretty well known so if LiV players don't meet those criteria, who is to blame? In time LiV may become a challenge to the other major tours but presently that is far from clear after just 8 events, I don't see any of the majors significantly changing the criteria for entry until 2024 at the earliest and then only if more significantly more of the top players move to LiV.