LIV Golf

[cleveland52]

Livs event in Jeddah reported to have a cut and going to 72 holes to meet OGWR criteria.

OGWR rules just stipulates a cut not where the cut is made.

Can't wait for the reaction to this, grabbing my popcorn ????thr have
And off you go ????

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-liv-golf-tour-ready-introduce-cuts-and-expand-72-holes

Soooo, who's career would you rather have right now E. Chacarra or Tom Kim?

Chacarra-$4.75M with no chance for OWGR and no Majors...signing bonus(maybe)?
Tom Kim -two wins approx. $2.5-3M, exempt to the majors and players, tour. of champions, 2-3 year exempt on Tour, National Television, unlimited endorsements, FedEX Cup, etc...chasing Tiger's records. Pension plan, chance to get out of Army duty.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Soooo, who's career would you rather have right now E. Chacarra or Tom Kim?

Chacarra-$4.75M with no chance for OWGR and no Majors...signing bonus(maybe)?
Tom Kim -two wins approx. $2.5-3M, exempt to the majors and players, tour. of champions, 2-3 year exempt on Tour, National Television, unlimited endorsements, FedEX Cup, etc...chasing Tiger's records. Pension plan, chance to get out of Army duty.

My post waa about the proposed cut in the next event to help meet OGWR criteria.

 

[BubbaP]

Soooo, who's career would you rather have right now E. Chacarra or Tom Kim?

Chacarra-$4.75M with no chance for OWGR and no Majors...signing bonus(maybe)?
Tom Kim -two wins approx. $2.5-3M, exempt to the majors and players, tour. of champions, 2-3 year exempt on Tour, National Television, unlimited endorsements, FedEX Cup, etc...chasing Tiger's records. Pension plan, chance to get out of Army duty.

In terms of career to date, then it's comparing apples to oranges IMO. Tom didn’t go the college route, he appeared on the PGAT back in 2020.
Not having a perfect crystal ball, I find it less easy to look forward 20 or so years, but it is clear Tom is hot right now and it's great to watch.
Take a step back, his result in the Scottish open was key to receiving the special invite - would that have been PGAT counting without the recent disruption? His result in the International Series also bumped up his rankings.
Don't really know why everything has to be a negative these days, actually I'd like to have both of their careers! I wish them both well. In fact as a spectator I'd like to see them play in the same events from time to time.
Who knows what the future holds.
I think only one player gained the special membership at a younger age - Joaquin Niemann ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Chacarra will get the opportunity to earn World Ranking points, the lad is 22, has is whole career infront of him. Do people think this current stand off is going to drag on for the next 10 or more years?

As for the topic on golf media taking a side, it was hinted at earlier in the thread with some of the info available in the ant-trust case - they will have been leaned on by the PGA and other tours that are opposed to LIV to stay on side, of course they will use whatever they can to try and stem the challenge from a competitor, it would be naive to think otherwise.

 

[BTatHome]

Soooo, who's career would you rather have right now E. Chacarra or Tom Kim?

Chacarra-$4.75M with no chance for OWGR and no Majors...signing bonus(maybe)?
Tom Kim -two wins approx. $2.5-3M, exempt to the majors and players, tour. of champions, 2-3 year exempt on Tour, National Television, unlimited endorsements, FedEX Cup, etc...chasing Tiger's records. Pension plan, chance to get out of Army duty.

Maybe Kim is a flash in the pan ?

 

[SteveW86]

Huge generalisation. I watched the golf in the clubhouse all weekend with my PP's and then watched a large chunk of the Shriners as well. I'd also sit and watch the LPGA or LET. I watch Sky's coverage regularly of all tours and will even watch midweek when the Challenge tour highlights, Europro etc are on

Whilst Phil may be generalising I’d be surprised if anyone watched the amount of golf you have listed.

Do you watch so much for research for your channel, or because you genuinely enjoy watching that much golf?

 

[doublebogey7]

Chacarra will get the opportunity to earn World Ranking points, the lad is 22, has is whole career infront of him. Do people think this current stand off is going to drag on for the next 10 or more years?

No, either LiV will become an open tour (rather than an invitational), and meet the OWGR half way by amending some of it's other rules or it will wither on the vine. Suspect they would also need to ditch Greig as the current format was his dream and OWGR points will not be available without some compromise on both sides.

 

[Backsticks]

Why do LIV tour players want ranking points in the first place ? They want to play less golf for more money - they got it.

 

[Bdill93]

Why do LIV tour players want ranking points in the first place ? They want to play less golf for more money - they got it.

No one ever said "stuff the majors" though did they?

 

[Mel Smooth]

No, either LiV will become an open tour (rather than an invitational), and meet the OWGR half way by amending some of it's other rules or it will wither on the vine. Suspect they would also need to ditch Greig as the current format was his dream and OWGR points will not be available without some compromise on both sides.

It’s pretty clear that LIV are open to modifying their product to meet the requirements for OWGR points, so I suspect it’s just a matter of time now until points are given.

 

[Marshy77]

Cam Smith could have had his stellar year - he is a superb player but was he going to be a multiple major or be a one year wonder ? Who knows

Yes, horrendous year that.

 

[doublebogey7]

It’s pretty clear that LIV are open to modifying their product to meet the requirements for OWGR points, so I suspect it’s just a matter of time now until points are given.

Really, GN tweet last week seems to say oherwise as he thinks they already have met the required critewia (deluded)

Including being an open tour i.e. qualifying school? For me, this clearly is the one OWGR won't nor should compromise on. There are over 2,500 players in the OWGR, if 48 of those are only or largely only playing in closed events I don't see how it is possible to come up with a system that is designed to compare the recent form of all 2500 players.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Oh come on he is no one year wonder ?
Or do Liv Players not count as top players now ?
Anyone who has watched this guy for the last 3 years knows he is a class player, had he not gone to Liv he probably would have gone to No1 in the world or had his Liv results gained OGWR points

Career
6 PGA Wins
3 European Tour wins
2 PGA Australia Wins
1 LIV Tour Win

Major Record
Master T2nd
Open Winner
US Open T4th
USPGA T13th

You miss the point

Yes he is a superb player and has won well with good finishes at the Majors , but then there have been many players through history that have done the same - someone mentioned Duvall as an example , they have stellar years and top of with a major win.

The question is - will they then go on to have more major wins and more stellar years - and it’s also the same question that can be aimed towards Scheffler

No one is doubting the guys ability - he has proven that but it’s a step up to become a multiple major winner , some do it quickly , some take a few years to get their second

If Smith doesn’t win a second major then it doesn’t make him any less of a player. He was the player who finished the season on the hot streak , Scheffler started it that way

 

[Swango1980]

No one ever said "stuff the majors" though did they?

Well, they should have thought very long and hard about that before signing up to LIV.

And, I am sure they did, as they didn't all sign up immediately the offer came in. They allowed themselves some thinking time, and for many of them the Majors would have been the biggest consideration. A big reason why many have not signed up to LIV. For those that have, they made that decision. It is not even as if they could miss the small print. It was ridiculously obvious that signing up to LIV would likely put a big barrier in their way to qualify for future Majors. Even if their representatives did a shoddy job, it has been the big discussion within the media. Even we have been discussing in this forum for many many many months

 

[Bdill93]

Well, they should have thought very long and hard about that before signing up to LIV.

And, I am sure they did, as they didn't all sign up immediately the offer came in. They allowed themselves some thinking time, and for many of them the Majors would have been the biggest consideration. A big reason why many have not signed up to LIV. For those that have, they made that decision. It is not even as if they could miss the small print. It was ridiculously obvious that signing up to LIV would likely put a big barrier in their way to qualify for future Majors. Even if their representatives did a shoddy job, it has been the big discussion within the media. Even we have been discussing in this forum for many many many months

I don't disagree with your points at all. But the already qualified players will continue to play.

The Sam Horsfields of the world have made their beds for now though - picked the cash over the chance to play in them. But if I'm Sam, and really I know I'm not going to win a major, I think he's actually played a blinder for his career and maximising his earnings potential while he can.

Also interestingly enough, Majors have remained pretty chill about LIV in comparison to everyone else

 

[Mel Smooth]

Really, GN tweet last week seems to say oherwise as he thinks they already have met the required critewia (deluded)

Including being an open tour i.e. qualifying school? For me, this clearly is the one OWGR won't nor should compromise on. There are over 2,500 players in the OWGR, if 48 of those are only or largely only playing in closed events I don't see how it is possible to come up with a system that is designed to compare the recent form of all 2500 players.

How are they closed events when you can qualify for them?
There will become a point when the OWGR are blatantly blocking LIV’s application through malice, rather than merit. Plenty of players on the PGA tour are already now saying the LIV guys should get points, I’m sure they also want to compete in majors knowing if they win, they beat the best players in the world. Of course, the next few years won’t be a problem through exemptions but in 5 years time, The Masters might not actually be The Masters, if the OWGR points situation isn’t resolved.

 

[Swango1980]

You miss the point

Yes he is a superb player and has won well with good finishes at the Majors , but then there have been many players through history that have done the same - someone mentioned Duvall as an example , they have stellar years and top of with a major win.

The question is - will they then go on to have more major wins and more stellar years - and it’s also the same question that can be aimed towards Scheffler

No one is doubting the guys ability - he has proven that but it’s a step up to become a multiple major winner , some do it quickly , some take a few years to get their second

If Smith doesn’t win a second major then it doesn’t make him any less of a player. He was the player who finished the season on the hot streak , Scheffler started it that way

Indeed, it seems a few LIV fans have completely missed the context of my original post, and jumped on the defensive.

At no point did I say he WAS a flash in the pan, and that he would not have / will go on to achieve great things. I didn't deny what he has achieved in recent times. The very definition of a flash in the pan is someone who goes through an amazing purple patch, and then achieves significantly less thereafter. So quoting his wins to date is irrelevant to the discussion, all it does is define the "flash" part of his career, if it were to turn out that way.

My point was that nobody knows how he will perform in the future. Once he has a dip in form, will it just be that and he will be able to get back to how he has performed recently. Or, will he never regain that level? Therefore, from my own point of view (and my original post was explaining my point of view on the entertainment value of the current LIV players), Smith is still not a major draw for me. He is just another player who has had a great year. Same could be said for Scheffler, great year but will he continue that into the future? If I could choose to have them in a tournament I am watching or not, then I'd still put them in it as they are clearly playing well. But, if they were not there, I just wouldn't be bothered. If they had another 5 or so years of sustained high level golf, then maybe I'd think differently.

I like to see Rory play, but it is also good to see Thomas, Spieth and Rahm (I didn't really like Thomas or Spieth several years ago, but they have sort of been up there for a long enough time that it is good to see them compete, even if I don't necessarily want them to win)

 

[Swango1980]

I don't disagree with your points at all. But the already qualified players will continue to play.

The Sam Horsfields of the world have made their beds for now though - picked the cash over the chance to play in them. But if I'm Sam, and really I know I'm not going to win a major, I think he's actually played a blinder for his career and maximising his earnings potential while he can.

Also interestingly enough, Majors have remained pretty chill about LIV in comparison to everyone else

I agree. The majority of the players in LIV had an easy decision. They were either past their sell by date, or felt unlikely they'd ever realistically win a major, so cashed in. Completely understand that. A few of the other top names will have exceptions for winning majors in the past. And, I think those exemptions should be respected, and they should be able to play were those exemptions allow. But, for those players that are worried about qualifying via World Rankings (now, or after exceptions run out), those players will have had to think about that long and hard. There should be no surprise from them, or Greg Norman, that they are not getting World Ranking Points. They should only have been surprised if they (that is, Greg Norman and LIV) had a guarantee they would get them, and then were betrayed. That wasn't the case, and the reasons they don't get points has been discussed to death in here.

 

[Swango1980]

How are they closed events when you can qualify for them?
There will become a point when the OWGR are blatantly blocking LIV’s application through malice, rather than merit. Plenty of players on the PGA tour are already now saying the LIV guys should get points, I’m sure they also want to compete in majors knowing if they win, they beat the best players in the world. Of course, the next few years won’t be a problem through exemptions but in 5 years time, The Masters might not actually be The Masters, if the OWGR points situation isn’t resolved.

There will become a point? Maybe, maybe not. However, at least you finally acknowledge that we are not at that point yet, but simply believe it might be an issue at some point in the future.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How are they closed events when you can qualify for them?
There will become a point when the OWGR are blatantly blocking LIV’s application through malice, rather than merit. Plenty of players on the PGA tour are already now saying the LIV guys should get points, I’m sure they also want to compete in majors knowing if they win, they beat the best players in the world. Of course, the next few years won’t be a problem through exemptions but in 5 years time, The Masters might not actually be The Masters, if the OWGR points situation isn’t resolved.

So what was the qualifying process for the recent event in Thailand? Or the one previously in the US and indeed the one coming up in Saudi Arabia ?

Can someone from another tour qualify for the upcoming event on a Monday qualifying event ? Or via their position in the rankings ? Or via a recent high position in an event ?

But there are still so many areas that need to be fulfilled before points are awarded and everyone knows that - well apart from Norman and BDC who appear to believe that the events already fulfil what’s needed

But when it comes to ranking points you would have hoped or expected the CEO ( Greg Norman ) to have it all sorted before the events started so that the players knew exactly where they stood - it’s the same with the bans from other tours. But GN clearly didn’t think everything through

Most of the main players will continue to play majors for a good period anyway - and when they do play majors that then gives them chances for ranking points and further exemptions