evemccc
Well-known member
To your last point I think it depends on which players make that decision…Pretty sure we’re not too far away from a couple of players especially believing they can do that ?
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
To your last point I think it depends on which players make that decision…Pretty sure we’re not too far away from a couple of players especially believing they can do that ?
Marshy77
Journeyman Pro
Exactly and it seems that isn't enough too! When you break it down it's obscene.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Wish I was in their position,I’d be off like a shot ?
stefanovic
Medal Winner
Listened to Gary Player this morning criticising the LIV.
Aged 86 he's worth $250 million.
"LIV golfers won't be competing to make the cut.
They won't need to work hard in the gym...blah, blah.
But Henrik Stenson - he deserves to join the LIV because he was stung by Allen Stanford's ponzi scheme so has no money.
Plus a plethora of other many strange comments.
Aged 86 he's worth $250 million.
"LIV golfers won't be competing to make the cut.
They won't need to work hard in the gym...blah, blah.
But Henrik Stenson - he deserves to join the LIV because he was stung by Allen Stanford's ponzi scheme so has no money.
Plus a plethora of other many strange comments.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Didn’t Stenson win the fed ex after getting stung.
He’s hardly skint ?
He has won a lot since then. I am sure that loss stings him still, it would everyone, but people can't keep referring back to that as a suggestion that he is living out of the back of his car. To be fair, I don't think he himself raises it, it is others that keep harping back.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Is that the same Player who was recently very well sponsered by Golf Saudi ?
D
Deleted member 21445
Guest
This podcast with respected journalist Alan Shipnuck is well worth an hour of your time..
The PGA Tours threats to Andy Ogletree at the end of this is definitely not cool..
As Alan says "That's ****** Up man that they would threaten you like that"
The PGA Tours threats to Andy Ogletree at the end of this is definitely not cool..
As Alan says "That's ****** Up man that they would threaten you like that"
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Beezerk
Money List Winner
It got brought up by the interviewer, GP just mentioned ladies golf and Aramco and completely swerved the Saudi angle.
Springveldt
Well-known member
slowhand
Head Pro
I have no issues with any golfer who wants to go and join the Liv tour (I personally don't like it and won't watch it, but that's up to me), but please be honest about why you're going. You're going for the money. If it was about playing less golf, you wouldn't be going to court to try and play on the PGA / DP World tour as well. If it was about growing the game, why aren't the tournaments taking place in countries that don't get a PGA / DP World tournament? Let's be clear, if I was offered an insane amount of money to just do what I was already doing, I would also seriously consider it.
I think the main problem is Norman. He has had it in for the PGA tour ever since his original proposals back in the 90s were shot down. He seems to have taken it very much as a personal slight and has had a chip on his shoulder ever since. Someone more willing to compromise (and this goes for Monohagn as well) might have been able to have got Liv & the PGA tour to a place where they can coexist peacefully.
My personal opinion is that all the separate tours are not good for golf. It should be a single, worldwide tour, under one governing body like most other sports, where there are tournaments spread around the globe, much like tennis. I'd drop the US PGA as a major in favour of the Australian Open, and much as the PGA tour has it's west cast and Florida swings, you could have an Australasia swing in the (northern hemisphere) winter months, then on to the US for March, April & May (Players, Masters and move the US Open), then onto Europe to take in the Open and other European tournaments, then on to the Middle East. Players can opt to play in whatever tournaments they wish, but of course would need to be mindful of qualifying criteria for those they wish to enter
I think the main problem is Norman. He has had it in for the PGA tour ever since his original proposals back in the 90s were shot down. He seems to have taken it very much as a personal slight and has had a chip on his shoulder ever since. Someone more willing to compromise (and this goes for Monohagn as well) might have been able to have got Liv & the PGA tour to a place where they can coexist peacefully.
My personal opinion is that all the separate tours are not good for golf. It should be a single, worldwide tour, under one governing body like most other sports, where there are tournaments spread around the globe, much like tennis. I'd drop the US PGA as a major in favour of the Australian Open, and much as the PGA tour has it's west cast and Florida swings, you could have an Australasia swing in the (northern hemisphere) winter months, then on to the US for March, April & May (Players, Masters and move the US Open), then onto Europe to take in the Open and other European tournaments, then on to the Middle East. Players can opt to play in whatever tournaments they wish, but of course would need to be mindful of qualifying criteria for those they wish to enter
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure all the players who have gone to LIV have said the money is a key part. Every player I've heard has said the money played a huge factor anyway.
I don't understand this narrative that is being said in which the players are trying to give fake excuses as to why they joined LIV. I mean, what do you expect them to say. The money is the only reason we have joined, and any other potential issue you can think of is worse than what we had on the PGA? Of course not. The money has attracted them to LIV, but as it happens, there are other benefits to them over and above the money. One of the key ones is the opportunity to play less golf if they wish. Not just in number of tournaments played throughout the year, but freeing up an extra day a week. Of course that is an advantage. Of course, what they do with their free time is up to them. Even if they fancy playing more golf in some of that free time. LIV simply gives them the flexibility to make those decisions (less golf, with more income), whereas before LIV they'd have more of an obligation to play a lot of golf for lesser financial rewards, plus the pressure of maintaining your position on that Tour.
So, I get why the players are doing it, and I haven't seen any of them being dishonest. They are simply framing the advantages that appeal to them (as most people would for a new job), rather than making it ALL about the money, especially as the media have gone with the narrative that money = evil. It is obvious that they need to make LIV golf sound appealing, given they are a huge part of marketing LIV.
All that said, that is from a players point of view, which I totally get. However, as a fan I have no interest in the golfing side of LIV. I watched a little of the first event on youtube just out of curiosity (and a could do it at work), but there are a multitude of reasons why I find it far less appealing than even a bog standard PGA Tour event, let alone a Major.
sunshine
Well-known member
sunshine
Well-known member
Let's be clear, LIV is no longer just has-beens. Cam Smith is a big signing, and could be a trigger for more big names to join, in the same way that Dustin Johnson paved the way for some of the bigger names that followed him in the first wave like Koepka and BDC.
Neimann is a young up and coming star, and HV3 is very marketable and continues the liv trend of securing popular players ahead of winners. Both big blows to the PGA Tour.
Lahiri is an interesting one. India obviously has a huge population but zero interest in golf, he probably appeals more to the Indian diaspora in north America and the UK where golf is a growing sport.
Leishman is over the hill so makes sense, and Tringale just another anonymous US touring pro.
Neimann is a young up and coming star, and HV3 is very marketable and continues the liv trend of securing popular players ahead of winners. Both big blows to the PGA Tour.
Lahiri is an interesting one. India obviously has a huge population but zero interest in golf, he probably appeals more to the Indian diaspora in north America and the UK where golf is a growing sport.
Leishman is over the hill so makes sense, and Tringale just another anonymous US touring pro.
D
Deleted member 21445
Guest
The other really big point from the Fire Pit Collective podcast is that young pros are going to head to the Asian Tour which is the feeder tour for Liv..
Why?
Same reason the $$$$
It's very hard to make a living on the PGA Canadian Tour and PGA Korn Ferry Tour you have to qualify for The PGA Tour whereas the Asian tour with the influx of PIF investment offers the opportunity to make a good living regardless of whether you make it on to Liv or not.
Another key clever strategy by Liv....
So far the PGA Tours strategy has been to make Rory and his mates richer, they really need to invest serious money in the Korn Ferry Tour to ensure the next future stars come through to replace the now established star players they are losing to Liv
Why?
Same reason the $$$$
It's very hard to make a living on the PGA Canadian Tour and PGA Korn Ferry Tour you have to qualify for The PGA Tour whereas the Asian tour with the influx of PIF investment offers the opportunity to make a good living regardless of whether you make it on to Liv or not.
Another key clever strategy by Liv....
So far the PGA Tours strategy has been to make Rory and his mates richer, they really need to invest serious money in the Korn Ferry Tour to ensure the next future stars come through to replace the now established star players they are losing to Liv
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
When it comes to Ogletree- there was the pathway for him - he just wasn’t good enough to make it , plenty of young Amatuer stars have made it through that pathway over the years. And then if they can’t make it to the PGAT they try other tours
As US Am - he got plenty of invites and chances to gain a tour card , he would have been given and in those events he mainly missed the cut , he even missed the cut in the event at Slaley Hall
If he was good enough he would be alongside the likes of Scheffler etc and have come through the ranks
Swango1980
Well-known member
To be fair, that fits in to what I was saying about "framing advantages that appeal to them", and highlighting the other aspects that he feels are advantageous to help the marketing. I've not heard every word every player has said, but if he came out and said the money wasn't an issue, I would suggest he is probably lying. But, every player I've heard speak on the subject, and who have been asked about the money, have all said it was an important factor. Not heard any of them say it wasn't.
I just don't get why some people are getting themselves upset by thinking players are lying about the money being a factor, when it is quite clear that is is the key factor. Most players have said this directly. Many of us have moved jobs purely because the new job payed better. However, that does not stop us finding other advantages that the new job may have. Maybe it just so happens to be closer to family and friends, maybe you get extra holiday, maybe it is in another country and the weather is better or the city is vibrant. All that said, the money is why you moved, but there are probably many reasons that are also upgrades on the old job. It would be pretty sad if the new job paid more, but every other aspect of it, including how it affected your personal life, was worse than your old job. Going back to LIV, I can't imagine a player coming out and saying "joining LIV is worse in every single way compared to playing on the PGA, except for the fact I get more money". That would actually be a lie. And, I reckon most, if not all of them would never consider joining LIV for the same money, if it meant playing full time in the Middle East with the same busy schedule they had on the PGA Tour. That would effect their quality of life, in the sense they'd be living in a different environment and culture, and have none of their home comforts they are accustomed to. So, LIV cannot be ALL about the money. It is simply the fact that money is the key draw to LIV, but LIV allows them to not only live their normal lives outside golf, but enhances it by giving them more free time if they want it, and invest in other projects they are involved with.
They obviously hope that LIV will be hugely successful, and so they are going to try and be as positive about what it could achieve going forward. Unless people are expecting them to say "LIV has no future and the fans will hate it, however, I am here to rinse them out of as much money while I can"
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Swango1980
Well-known member
Again, is that a lie or contradictory to what I said?
I'm only reading the headline, but of course it will help his work life balance. He gets more time away from golf, whilst not only having to sacrifice income, but actually exceeding what he got before. The money makes this possible.
