LIV Golf

[Backsticks]

☝ curious, what sort of age are you two thinking of to be in the 'limbo to champions tour"?
With that tour being run by the PGA Tour, not sure that's a reliable option - maybe they hope to capture enough cash to not need to play on it ?

Possibly. It must be a risk. But they are playing it safe and not waiting to turn 50 and so going for a semi-seniors tour, with the same effective 'retirement' from serious top flight competition in a more restricted or handicapped tournament world.
Its clearly a mix of flavours, but the most prominent grouping seems a 40 something whose best days are well behind them at the top table. Poulter, Bubba, Phil, Schwarzel. That ilk. Then there are some out and out nobodies, but presumably the goal is to discard them as they sign better quality. But there are also the few top league players like Koepka, DJ, and Reed. So its a bit like watching the pre-ChampionsTour with an occasional - Oh, there's a real golfer !

 

[BTatHome]

Still can't understand why people care. If they really don't agree with the new tour then why would you care then some players have decided to join it?

Apparently they are all has-been and nobody players, so surely are making PGA tour better ... in which case celebrate the new LIV tour and just watch whatever you want. It really doesn't affect us at all!!

 

[Backsticks]

Still can't understand why people care. If they really don't agree with the new tour then why would you care then some players have decided to join it?

Apparently they are all has-been and nobody players, so surely are making PGA tour better ... in which case celebrate the new LIV tour and just watch whatever you want. It really doesn't affect us at all!!

It certainly hasnt made it better. The PGAT has taken a few punches. BdC, DJ, PR, and Koepka are the ones. The PGAT is the weaker for them leaving. Not fatally, but the risk is that is more leave from the top 30, then their claim to be offering without question, the world best golfers is no longer true. The centre must hold, and for the moment, just about is. Thats why last weeks meeting was important. Thats why post Fedex remainers/leavers news is critical to the future of top tier world pro golf. The worst of all worlds, is a split, with two decent but only half as good tours. So just ignoring the new tour if you dont agree with it doesnt work. The PGAT maaaay be collateral damage. That is what is being played out at the moment and why people are following it inch by inch.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There’s only one reason those players have ‘left’ the PGA Tour - and his initials are JM

They haven’t left have they, they’ve been kicked off by a spiteful commissioner, and a few of his cronies no doubt.

That’s not the only reason they have left the Tour

They have left the tour to join another tour because it has millions more money on offer for them and most of it is guaranteed

You keep blaming the PGAT when this all started when Greg Norman created LIV and used a bottomless pit of money

 

[Mel Smooth]

That’s not the only reason they have left the Tour

They have left the tour to join another tour because it has millions more money on offer for them and most of it is guaranteed

You keep blaming the PGAT when this all started when Greg Norman created LIV and used a bottomless pit of money

So why can’t there be another tour Phil?
You know - in addition to all the other tours that already exist?

The division has come from the actions of the PGAT, not LIV.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

So why can’t there be another tour Phil?
You know - in addition to all the other tours that already exist?

The division has come from the actions of the PGAT, not LIV.

Jeez Mel
Talk about spinning stuff to your own agenda
you can’t blame the PGAT for acting in defence of its interests and that of its players

LIV are waving a big cheque book, trying to cream off a set number of elite players which would dilute PGAT events

The LIV players are making a choice about which tour to belong to and then acting all surprised when the PGAT turn round and apply sanctions.

This has more to do with Greg Norman’s long standing feud with the PGAT than it does with growing the game

You have players like Poulter who wouldn’t normally be seen dead at the Czech Masters, there trying to grab ranking points, he is having to play more tournaments not less, it’s all smoke mirrors and wads of somebody else’s dubious cash

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So why can’t there be another tour Phil?
You know - in addition to all the other tours that already exist?

The division has come from the actions of the PGAT, not LIV.

There can be another Tour ?‍ No one said there can’t be another Tour

And LIV have created another Tour - so why are you saying there can’t be another Tour ? Aren’t LIV claiming they will have 20% of the golf market ? So they have their Tour

And can you tell me when the division started and what triggered it ?

Was it not first when Phil Mickleson started to recruit players offering them vast sums of money

And then when players took those vast sums of money they left the Tour - so whose fault is that -? The players ? The PGAT or LiV ?

 

[Harry Putter]

Was it not first when Phil Mickleson started to recruit players offering them vast sums of money

Phil is now pantomine, a comedy character. Once a great golfer but now perfect for LIV, an exhibition golfer who rakes in the money but will never contend. If you still want to watch his antics on LIV then good luck..

 

[Backsticks]

So why can’t there be another tour Phil?
You know - in addition to all the other tours that already exist?

The division has come from the actions of the PGAT, not LIV.

There is no rational argument against the fact that Saudi is the disruptor here, and a bad thing for the quality of our entertainment from elite pro golf. None. There is spin, trolling, contrarianism, and the financially vested. But in no way can a genuine argument be made for the LIV venture being a force for good. There was no division until LIV turned up, so LIV is the prime mover in this topic.
The top 30 golfers are what matters, and Saudi would like to buy them. If they did, they are never going to play the contracted LIV events, and majors, and various PGAT events even if the PGAT let them.

There is only one bad guy here - Saudi Sovereign Fund, or whatever they are called and whatever prince sheik is directing it. Greg has been bought off to be the public face of an indeffensible venture, so deserves all the criticism being flung at him.

To suggest the division has come from the actions of the PGAT defies all logic. Nobody even believes you even think it so yourself Mel. Nobody is that deluded. Norman is a smart guy so even he doesnt believe it.

No LIV, no division.

(the other tours is distraction - they are no competition to the PGAT, and not a factor nor valid comparison).

 

[Backsticks]

Phil is now pantomine, a comedy character. Once a great golfer but now perfect for LIV, an exhibition golfer who rakes in the money but will never contend. If you still want to watch his antics on LIV then good luck..

I think is a bad choice actually, and surprised they went so hard for him. BdC, DJ and Smith and the likes are required to make it credible golf. Having Phil on board seriously torpedos that tour as valid competition. It is pantomime exhibition golf as they have it at the moment. But I cant believe that is what they set out to do. It would have better prospects without Phil. He is a sort of honorary Masters starter figure. But at least they know only to play the first hole and retire.

 

[Harry Putter]

I think is a bad choice actually, and surprised they went so hard for him. BdC, DJ and Smith and the likes are required to make it credible golf. Having Phil on board seriously torpedos that tour as valid competition. It is pantomime exhibition golf as they have it at the moment. But I cant believe that is what they set out to do. It would have better prospects without Phil. He is a sort of honorary Masters starter figure. But at least they know only to play the first hole and retire.

It sums up LIV golf.. it's exhibition and nobody really cares whether they win or lose.. it will have it's time then will end.

 

[RRidges]

☝ curious, what sort of age are you two thinking of to be in the 'limbo to champions tour"?
With that tour being run by the PGA Tour, not sure that's a reliable option - maybe they hope to capture enough cash to not need to play on it ?

Mid to late 40s. At 50, they can then either decide to continue, retire or, if the option is available, go to Champions Tour.

 

[RRidges]

Still can't understand why people care. If they really don't agree with the new tour then why would you care then some players have decided to join it?

Because it reduces the quality of the tours from which they've jumped!

Apparently they are all has-been and nobody players, so surely are making PGA tour better ... in which case celebrate the new LIV tour and just watch whatever you want. It really doesn't affect us at all!!

That statemen is blatantly rubbish!
The fact that they still qualify for the appropriate tour shows that, while they are no longer the same quality they used to be, they are still better than those who would step into their places!

 

[RRidges]

The division has come from the actions of the PGAT, not LIV.

 

[RRidges]

I'm getting tired even reading about it now.

Then don't!

If you wanted out, cool, but out is out.

Agreed!

 

[BubbaP]

Have posted before, was no surprise how the PGAT reacted, and hard to blame them.
IMO they were homing in on their goal of the PGA Tour & the Korn Ferry Tour being the top 2 tours on the planet. With PGAT University, and the Champions Tour, they were close to 'completing' professional golf. Then the thorn arrived.
That said, it's easy to find a fact like - with 23 current sanctioned tours, only one has bans in place (I believe).
Soap opera ?

 

[Deleted member 21445]

So the new PGA Tour plan from the players meeting is to have 18 new tournament tour within the tour for the 60 best players with no cut.

Thought it wasn't a proper golf tournament If there is no history and no cut?

So 18 of them and 4 majors will be 22 tournaments a year.
This will ultimately lead to weaker fields in the Marquee historic events that were supposed to be the jewell in the PGA Tours crown?

Also PGA Tour starts paying taxes so it can bring in private equity investment.

All makes sense to compete with Liv.

I think long term a long way down the line because players will chase the money you will have 2 big tours playing for huge purses with no cut where the players are guaranteed big payouts regardless of performance so essentially this route results in 2 exhibition tours?

https://firepitcollective.com/tigers-secret-meeting/

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So the new PGA Tour plan from the players meeting is to have 18 new tournament tour within the tour for the 60 best players with no cut.

Thought it wasn't a proper golf tournament If there is no history and no cut?

So 18 of them and 4 majors will be 22 tournaments a year.
This will ultimately lead to weaker fields in the Marquee historic events that were supposed to be the jewell in the PGA Tours crown?

Also PGA Tour starts paying taxes so it can bring in private equity investment.

All makes sense to compete with Liv.

I think long term a long way down the line because players will chase the money you will have 2 big tours playing for huge purses with no cut where the players are guaranteed big payouts regardless of performance so essentially this route results in 2 exhibition tours?

https://firepitcollective.com/tigers-secret-meeting/

Looks like just another money grab to combat a money grab - both are looking like just wanting to get rich guys richer

Only positive is there will be spots on the PGAT for young up and coming players

None of this is good for golf , none of it is good for the fans - it’s only good for those at the top of the game.

It’s disappointing to see the PGAT react this way , they should have faith in their product , the majority of players know the tours are the way to the majors - market that not creating more money

 

[Backsticks]

The money from Saudi is just too big. Good move from the pgat to increase its fire power.
And majors are no defence. The PGAT has none, and all four will always ensure they have the worlds best golfers in the field regardless of what tour they are on.
So accessing big money is the route. Both capitalist, and patriotic, corporate America, will row in behind the PGAT Id say. They dont have to match Saudi - just bridge the gap a bit. The bad vibes of Saudi association will do the rest to make it worthwhile staying USA.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Jeez Mel
Talk about spinning stuff to your own agenda
you can’t blame the PGAT for acting in defence of its interests and that of its players

LIV are waving a big cheque book, trying to cream off a set number of elite players which would dilute PGAT events

The LIV players are making a choice about which tour to belong to and then acting all surprised when the PGAT turn round and apply sanctions.

This has more to do with Greg Norman’s long standing feud with the PGAT than it does with growing the game

You have players like Poulter who wouldn’t normally be seen dead at the Czech Masters, there trying to grab ranking points, he is having to play more tournaments not less, it’s all smoke mirrors and wads of somebody else’s dubious cash

How have they acted in defence of their own interests? - they've lost multiple big name players to another tour - and instead of attempting to keep them, they've shut the door on them - why did Monaghan never take up Normans offer to speak with them about working together? Why didn't he take the call and negotiate to release players possibly on a limited number of LIV events agreement - so they could still compete on the PGA Tour?

You do realise, that there was perhaps a solution which allowed all the players to get a chance of the LIV money, on a limited event basis, and still being part of the PGA or other tours?

Greg Norman may have a feud with the PGA, but seriously, most people are enjoying LIV for what it is - and won't even give a toss about Gregg Normans agenda, it may well be an issue for him, but personally, I couldn't care less, and I suspect there are plenty more like me.


Let's see just what transpires from that players meeting, but it's already looking like the PLAYERS are wanting changes made which align with what LIV are offering.


Whether people like it or not, the LIV series will be here to stay, and it's in everybodies interests to find a way for ALL the tours to benefit from the extra golf that will be on offer - if you can tell me how Monaghan and the PGAT expect to do that by simply closing their door - I'm all ears.....