LIV Golf

[GB72]

Imo - we are on a golf forum , most will be looking at golf social media etc so it will look like its a bit more extreme

I also think there are subtle differences - boxing and F1 are one offs , the F1 is part of the calendar to go there

Golf - it’s a rival tour being created and it’s being run vastly different to all the other tours - LIV golf are “poaching” players as such and luring them with vast sums of money to make very rich golfers richer - the arrival of LIV has created division within the sport and the reaction will be diffeentb

I hve a pretty broad spectrum of soclal media following to comment on as well as reading and listening to plenty of sport commentary. To try and differentiate sports, events and calendars is to tacitly accept that those are OK but golf is not. On a global level I suspect thateh Joshua fight and, indeed, the F1 would be signficantly more impactful as far as promoting the Saudi image than golf,

The discussion here is the sports washing element so the source of the money not how much is paid. If the funds came from a more acceptable source then I have no issue, that is simply competition in a capitalist market.

It would be very easy for the media to take a stand, don't broadcase the boxing, ignore the Saudi Grand Prix, don't show Newcastle matches etc but that will never happen and if it increases in popularity then LIV will be all over the mainstream media for sporting reasons only as well.

A moral argument cannot be appleid in isolation, if the moral stance is to be applied then that morality must apply, unflinchingly, accross the board.

 

[DrMac]

The fact Tiger has had to wade in probably shows how worried the PGAT and PGAT loyal players are. If the Saudis get Cam Smith (actual or near #1) then the floodgates could open for defections. If the Saudis can then get enough of the worlds top 50 between the end of the fedex and the 2023 tournament of champions then issues like them getting OWGR points could become moot. Given how much they have spent so far I don't see why the wouldn't spend just a bit more to properly up end pro golf. And Tiger and the PGAT know this.

 

[BubbaP]

There isn’t a good event that will grab public attention on the PGA tour until The Masters

Did you mean to type "The Players" ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think your arguments prove exactly why the moral argument is a poor one overall.

You have said yourself, boxing and F1 are one offs and just part of their regular calendar. Whereas in golf, LIV is a rival tour and poaching players from the rival tours. These are perfectly good arguments to accepting something for one sport, but not for another sport. I certainly agree, LIV has created division in golf, I don't think it is a good thing either.

However, the above reasons are not good enough to then use the moral argument for LIV just because you don't like the sporting reasons, yet push it to the side for boxing or F1 just because you don't think it is having a negative impact on the sporting aspect. The moral argument applies to both, and so if one finds it an absolutely crucial part of the argument for one sport then it should be equally important for others. OK, it might be easier for them to get personal in golf and pin a lot of the blame on individual golfers for making that decision. However, arguably even more anger should be placed towards the likes of the FIA, an organisation of people that have collectively decided to go to the Middle East.

Who has pushed anything to the side ?‍

I’m not a F1 fan or Boxing Fan but I don’t think any sport should be used for sport washing

I also think the World Cup going to Qatar was a disgrace just as a wasn’t a fan of it going to Russia

I do have huge F1 fans in the family and they don’t watch any GP in the middle east

 

[Mel Smooth]

Did you mean to type "The Players" ?

Fair point, I was focussed on the majors which are the events that register with the general public rather than the golf fan.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Guaranteed money on the PGA Tour incoming……?

Does this mean the Tour will be now classed as a series of exhibition events?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559798567128240135

 

[Swango1980]

Who has pushed anything to the side ?‍

I’m not a F1 fan or Boxing Fan but I don’t think any sport should be used for sport washing

I also think the World Cup going to Qatar was a disgrace just as a wasn’t a fan of it going to Russia

I do have huge F1 fans in the family and they don’t watch any GP in the middle east

I didn't say you were a fan. I was simple responding to YOUR comment about the difference between boxing, F1 and golf. You made that point, so being a fan or not, I'm assuming you believe the words you wrote. And, I also agree with the words you wrote.

I was then simply pointing out that you were making sporting arguments, and that just because there were differences between the sports in these contexts, it was no reason to mean that the moral part of the argument should be any different.

It should also be noted, the post of yours that I replied to was a post in which you were directly replying to GB72 about sports washing in all sports, were GB72 felt it should be applied equally across the board. Your response gave a reason why it is not, and you provided the subtle differences as to why. I do not necessarily know if you agree to those reasons, or were simply expressing what you felt they were more generally. However, either way, it still shows that the reasons people, generally, apply these moral arguments in some cases but less so in others has nothing to do with moral reasons at all, and more to do with whether they like the sporting reasons or not.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Guaranteed money on the PGA Tour incoming……?

Does this mean the Tour will be now classed as a series of exhibition events?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559798567128240135

They have the same in other major sports in the US. The NHL is €650k I think.

On a serious note. Is there any news about guaranteed money and food for the caddies?

 

[Mel Smooth]

They have the same in other major sports in the US. The NHL is €650k I think.

On a serious note. Is there any news about guaranteed money and food for the caddies?

Honestly don’t know, just seen that tweet, which may of course be untrue.

 

[Swango1980]

Who has pushed anything to the side ?‍

I’m not a F1 fan or Boxing Fan but I don’t think any sport should be used for sport washing

I also think the World Cup going to Qatar was a disgrace just as a wasn’t a fan of it going to Russia

I do have huge F1 fans in the family and they don’t watch any GP in the middle east

That is great for you and the family then. As I said though, I wasn't talking about you personally, simply responded to the point you made to GB72 where you explained the difference, in your view between golf and other sports. Your reply being to a post about sportswashing.

 

[CountLippe]

There are varying degrees of sports washing. Unless I'm missing something, Liv golf has literally no business model and the sums involved are greater than any other sport, especially relative to what they're getting.

 

[sweaty sock]

It seems to me, the longer this goes on, the more the pga is unwittingly becoming a feeder tour for LIV.
If LIV gets majors then thats the only conclusion i can see unless LIV money runs out.

Qualify for tour, play we'll, get Big ££ LIV offer....

I actially think for the next 3 or 4 years the current crop of LIV (assuming, smith, leishman, young and matsuyama go) is comparable to everything outside the majors...

 

[Deleted member 1147]

There isn’t a good event that will grab public attention on the PGA tour until The Masters

Every event can grab the public attention. There’s a different set of stories every week.
Especially for people who actually like golf.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Guaranteed money on the PGA Tour incoming……?

Does this mean the Tour will be now classed as a series of exhibition events?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559798567128240135

It’s a shame that he hasn’t provided any proof or source for it but yet the LIV bots are running with it

Those sort of posts add nothing but to widen the divide when they are just pure speculation but posted as a fact

And it’s a shame that some run with it as if it’s a fact

What is also a shame is when it’s then reposted again on other social media outlets

In another post you highlighted how PGA are causing all the issues etc - what do you think posts like about do ? And will they retract if it’s shown to be false ?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Although its probably not fair to use the inaugural liv season as a measure for number of events

If accurate as reported:
Next year a liv player will be required to play in 14 liv events in the season
A pgat player will be required to play in 15 pgat events in the season

So it seems pretty it'll be pretty even
Plus the pgat player gets to play in events that aren’t really proper pgat events but they’ll still count towards their requirement of 15 (i.e Majors and co-sanctioned, not sure about WGCs too) whereas a liv player will (if allowed) play in Majors, Asia tour, in addition to their requirement of 14







(still not decided if I want the liv)

There are only 14 events on one tour, but a whole year’s worth on the the Euro & PGA tours.
So one has a year’s entertainment value, whereas the other only 26% of the year.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There isn’t a good event that will grab public attention on the PGA tour until The Masters

The AT&T Pro Am at Pebble
Phoenix Open
Honda
Arnold Palmer
The Players
WGC Matchplay
Texas Open

All events that will have big crowds both at the event and watching on the Telly

 

[Deleted member 1147]

It’s a shame that he hasn’t provided any proof or source for it but yet the LIV bots are running with it

Those sort of posts add nothing but to widen the divide when they are just pure speculation but posted as a fact

And it’s a shame that some run with it as if it’s a fact

What is also a shame is when it’s then reposted again on other social media outlets

In another post you highlighted how PGA are causing all the issues etc - what do you think posts like about do ? And will they retract if it’s shown to be false ?

Any twitter account that starts with LIV tends to be absolute rubbish & not worth reading.

 

[Swango1980]

The AT&T Pro Am at Pebble
Phoenix Open
Honda
Arnold Palmer
The Players
WGC Matchplay
Texas Open

All events that will have big crowds both at the event and watching on the Telly

I think Mel really meant to write "there will not be a big event on the PGA that HE is interested in, until the Masters"

 

[Slab]

There are only 14 events on one tour, but a whole year’s worth on the the Euro & PGA tours.
So one has a year’s entertainment value, whereas the other only 26% of the year.

True although if you're looking at it from a viewers perspective and golf entertainment, then we have the whole year of pgat plus the 14 liv events, so its even better then

 

[Backsticks]

It seems to me, the longer this goes on, the more the pga is unwittingly becoming a feeder tour for LIV.
If LIV gets majors then thats the only conclusion i can see unless LIV money runs out.

Its all the same to the pgat. At the moment, they are a feeder tour to the Champions Tour. Where players go when past peak competitiveness doesnt really matter to them.