LIV Golf

[Barking_Mad]

Not skew. Correctly an anomoly in the current system if it no longer identifies the worlds best golfers. Its not a free ride, anymore than the current system is. The arent leapfrogging anyone, simply correctly being recognised as worthy of automatic qualification.

There's a bunch of qualification criteria they apparently don't meet, this being one of them. But even if they were to amend it tomorrow there's no way they're going to get, or should get the same number of points as their field is generally going to be a) worse overall and b) they're playing 54 holes with no cut.

Yet you want them in the majors on the grounds of "equality"?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Got to feel sorry for Ewan Ferguson picking up a measly 8 points for winning on ET....

The new system is fair from a purely numbers point of view, however DP Tour golfers are now going to be looking at those top 10 places to get on the PGA Tour (or majorsas I suspect anything else is going to be very limiting.

 

[Backsticks]

There's a bunch of qualification criteria they apparently don't meet, this being one of them. But even if they were to amend it tomorrow there's no way they're going to get, or should get the same number of points as their field is generally going to be a) worse overall and b) they're playing 54 holes with no cut.

Yet you want them in the majors on the grounds of "equality"?

Yes. If the top 48 owgr of today jumped, and only played LIV, then the majors have to ensure they qualify. The majors have no motivation to 'punish' them like the pgat ot DPWT who are commercial rivals to the Saudis. Having a theoretical access to the majors through Asia tour or qualifying rounds will not ensure they are in the starting field. So they will modify the criteria to ensure that they are. Maybe a top 20 on the LiV not already qualified by other means for example. Similar to Ryder cup team qualification.

 

[BubbaP]

There's a bunch of qualification criteria they apparently don't meet, this being one of them. But even if they were to amend it tomorrow there's no way they're going to get, or should get the same number of points as their field is generally going to be a) worse overall and b) they're playing 54 holes with no cut.

Yet you want them in the majors on the grounds of "equality"?

Was under the impression the only criteria not met was the "in existence for a year".
Don't think anyone is suggesting "the same number if points", they could just apply existing logic around cut/no cut, number of holes, field size & strength.

Personally I think the OWGR would come out if this better if points are awarded, even if just a few. If they manufacture a way to block then it risks a rival ranking system coming into being and more division.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Was under the impression the only criteria not met was the "in existence for a year".
Don't think anyone is suggesting "the same number if points", they could just apply existing logic around cut/no cut, number of holes, field size & strength.

Personally I think the OWGR would come out if this better if points are awarded, even if just a few. If they manufacture a way to block then it risks a rival ranking system coming into being and more division.

I think one of the key areas that’s affecting Ranking points is the qualifying- LIV is essentially invite only , players can’t go through any qualifying for the Tour or Monday qualifying for the comp so it’s essentially at the moment a closed competition- that’s one of the key things that stops it getting Ranking points.

 

[BubbaP]

I think one of the key areas that’s affecting Ranking points is the qualifying- LIV is essentially invite only , players can’t go through any qualifying for the Tour or Monday qualifying for the comp so it’s essentially at the moment a closed competition- that’s one of the key things that stops it getting Ranking points.

I thought they had attempted to mitigate that -
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-relegation-promotion-qualifying-tournament
Not saying it would be enough, but as OWGR don't comment it is impossible to know!

 

[Oddsocks]

That's fair enough, one thing from my own experience is they are very heavy into their religion (Not for getting onto in here) and I believe that there religion forbids gay relationships, it's something that definitely needs addressed but the 'normal' people will probably be very much against it as well.

This is big for me and one of the main reasons I detest religious beliefs. Lots of disgusting stuff goes on globally hiding behind that very excuse.

Waiting for the Cam Smith penalty backlash to begin?

The situation stank!

 

[rksquire]

I think one of the key areas that’s affecting Ranking points is the qualifying- LIV is essentially invite only , players can’t go through any qualifying for the Tour or Monday qualifying for the comp so it’s essentially at the moment a closed competition- that’s one of the key things that stops it getting Ranking points.

Starting to get to grips with the new system and don't think that's necessarily correct - (other 'precedents' exist but that aside) - the new system is based on a round by round basis and the fact is that all players have a current ranking, albeit dropping, but the system has the ability to accommodate points being awarded.

As said, Reed picked up 0.32 points, which is 0.32 points more than McIlroy & Shuffler - two of the best players in the world seemingly not wanting to play 72 holes, wonder if there's an alternative available to them!?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Starting to get to grips with the new system and don't think that's necessarily correct - (other 'precedents' exist but that aside) - the new system is based on a round by round basis and the fact is that all players have a current ranking, albeit dropping, but the system has the ability to accommodate points being awarded.

As said, Reed picked up 0.32 points, which is 0.32 points more than McIlroy & Shuffler - two of the best players in the world seemingly not wanting to play 72 holes, wonder if there's an alternative available to them!?

sorry what I was meaning is the inclusion of LIV events into the ranking system in the first place

The 54 holes isn’t an issue same with the size of the field ( even though it would be reduce points ) - but the invite only is an issue because right now a player can’t qualify to play

 

[Beezerk]

sorry what I was meaning is the inclusion of LIV events into the ranking system in the first place

The 54 holes isn’t an issue same with the size of the field ( even though it would be reduce points ) - but the invite only is an issue because right now a player can’t qualify to play

Going by this thread, if you're a money grabbing, past it, has been then you automatically qualify ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This is big for me and one of the main reasons I detest religious beliefs. Lots of disgusting stuff goes on globally hiding behind that very excuse.



The situation stank!

The situation was explained

Going by this thread, if you're a money grabbing, past it, has been then you automatically qualify ?

I wonder if there is a money grabbing ranking system ??

 

[Oddsocks]

I’m sorry Phil but that was an obvious rule breach and with the amount of commentary and TV viewers (rule geeks) calling in, that should have been addressed post round on Saturday and not pre round Sunday.

If they are going to take that route at what point do you stop reviewing past rounds for rule breeches?

 

[r0wly86]

Point 1 - If you believe that the Saudi Government aren't telling PIF what to invest in then your pretty naïve (It's literally the government, they invest on there behalf), we all have a choice where we invest our money and like you say no one can stop you buying shares in these companies, but you have a choice and if it goes against your moral compass you don't need to.

Point 2 - It is feasible if they want it to be and if they really feel that strongly about it they can find out, everything is out there, do you stop watching ladies golf or F1 because of Saudi Aramco's major investment in these sports, do you stop buying products from China because of there child slavery record, do you stop buying Russian vodka because they invaded Ukraine, do you stop eating meat knowing they are getting slaughtered for our consumption (I could go on), my point is we always have a choice no matter what it is, far too easy to dismiss it, it's just whether it goes against your moral compass or can be bothered to find out.

Point 3 - Should they not try and improve their image, have you been out to the Far East to see what it's like, have you worked with Arabs, I've personally worked with them and been going out there for years through work and holidays and I honestly couldn't say a bad word on my own personal experience, it seems like on this thread that every Arab and anyone from Saudi Arabia are the scum of the earth.

Just to be clear I'm not for or against LIV golf, but I'm also not a hypocrite.

Point 1 - I didn't say anything of the sort. Simply that PIF buying shared in companies as a means of diversifying their portfolio is a completely different thing from buying LIV with the sole purpose propaganda. What I was saying is that the companies like Uber are publicly traded so they cannot stop the PIF from buying shares

Point 2 - it is not feasible for people to check every share owner of every country. Yes some people may boycott certain countries from what they purchase i.e. buying non Chinese made products (albeit there is a big difference from companies being punished because of their governments actions and not taking liking where a government is taking direct action as what is happening here), I know for a fact that Russian vodka sales have dropped massively since the Ukraine invasion. But can you imagine before making any purchase having to trawl through and looking at all the individual shareholders. Not to say you cannot, but again it is a completely different thing from a government committing overt propaganda.

Point 3 - "improve their image" I am all for that if that means changing their ways, stopping human rights abuses and executing anti-monarchists. Not trying to gloss over those things with overt propaganda. This has nothing to do with individual Arabs, but the government. I know a lot of Russians who are lovely people, this doesn't mean you should give Putin free reign to do what he wants.

 

[Mel Smooth]

sorry what I was meaning is the inclusion of LIV events into the ranking system in the first place

The 54 holes isn’t an issue same with the size of the field ( even though it would be reduce points ) - but the invite only is an issue because right now a player can’t qualify to play

But they can qualify to play next year.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I’m sorry Phil but that was an obvious rule breach and with the amount of commentary and TV viewers (rule geeks) calling in, that should have been addressed post round on Saturday and not pre round Sunday.

If they are going to take that route at what point do you stop reviewing past rounds for rule breeches?

No one called in - that can’t happen anymore

And coverage wasn’t conclusive hence why they asked the player himself then next day and he clarified- as long as it’s sorted before the next round starts that’s all that should matter. And it’s not a new thing been happening for years

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But they can qualify to play next year.

So when that starts and it’s a true qualifying then they will look at it. No one can qualify for next year - they have “picked” or “invited” their players for next season already for those LIV events

 

[Oddsocks]

No one called in - that can’t happen anymore

And coverage wasn’t conclusive hence why they asked the player himself then next day and he clarified- as long as it’s sorted before the next round starts that’s all that should matter. And it’s not a new thing been happening for years

I’m sure in the Sunday afternoon coverage the commentary team said they also spoke with him Saturday.

My point is there are various staff watching for breeches etc, is it it their job to assess these straight away or are they just there for the tea and biscuits.

This isn’t an anti pga pro liv argument, but the cynic in me says someone stired the pot overnight.

I really hope he does win it now

 

[Mel Smooth]

So when that starts and it’s a true qualifying then they will look at it. No one can qualify for next year - they have “picked” or “invited” their players for next season already for those LIV events

But still, the future of LIV golf has qualification places, so the tenuous argument that it is “invitation only” isn’t true beyond 2023 - something that will be factored in on the OWGR application.

 

[RRidges]

So when that starts and it’s a true qualifying then they will look at it. No one can qualify for next year - they have “picked” or “invited” their players for next season already for those LIV events

I believe the lack of a cut is a showstopper.
Neither the 54 hole, nor the circus nature and lack of qualification don't seem to be showstoppers, though I can see an argument for both having to change to some degree in order to get OWGR accreditation.
To me, it's the closed (as opposed to open) nature of the entire series that doesn't fit with the concept of what 'competitive golf' is about. Until entry to LIV tournaments are truly open - through qualification into individual events in a similar way to regular tournaments elsewhere - then I'm against LIV getting OWGR. That uncompetitive nature is more important, for me, than (what I believe is a showstopper for OWGR qualification) of a cut where those that miss don't get prize money.
FWIW. It looks like 'qualification' will not be the same as other tours - with qualification for individual events. But it will be a single qualification event where those that qualify will play for the entire season. That doesn't seem sufficient to me - but does allow LIV bots and fans to announce 'there'll be qualification' in, to me, the same way the COO 'countered' the lawyer's blunder announcement!
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-relegation-promotion-qualifying-tournament

 

[RRidges]

But still, the future of LIV golf has qualification places, so the tenuous argument that it is “invitation only” isn’t true beyond 2023 - something that will be factored in on the OWGR application.

When that - and any other requirements for OWGR eligibility - has been in place for any required qualification period, then perhaps an application should be accepted. Until then any application should be rejected - on 'does not qualify for entry criteri' grounds!