LIV Golf

[Backsticks]

I agree that the idea of a World Tour sounds great. Have a bunch of 15 or so marquee events, probably 7 or 8 in the US, 3 or 4 in Europe, a couple in SA, one in Oz and one in UAE, one in SE Asia, and that would be great. The regular season PGA Tout and DP World Tour could run as well.

The problem is that the LIV Tour is driven by 2 unpleasant motivations.

One is sport washing. There is no doubt that Saudi royal family want to sanitise their image. The only debate is between people who care about that or not. I expect the Saudis would be happy to work with the PGA Tour to do so. They don't care, their outcome is a laundered public image.

The other one is Greg Norman, who has a bone to pick with the PGA Tour. He is much less happy to reach agreement, he wants vengeance. He considers that the PGA Tour has not shown him the respect he thinks he deserves. He also bears resentment from the rejection of the mid-90s ideas for a world tour and resents missing out on a career swansong in such a Tour. Adding Trump to the mix is a sure sign he does not want to settle, because the PGA Tour hates Trump and will not have one of his events in their schedule.

If the LIV Tour wants a deal (as opposed to legal settlement) with the PGA Tour, they need to get rid of Norman and Trump.

Good points.

Personally though, I have no problem either with sportswashing, nor with Norman. The trouble LIV is creating is purely a pro golf as entertainment one for me.

On the world tour element, as a spectator through a screen, which 99.999% of us are, I dont see what that would add. If anything, a US timezone suits great for primetime viewing. Events in Aus or the far East actually takem out of my orbit rather than enhance in anyway. A touring the world F1 style has a superficially positive ring to it. But I dont think it really would in practice for those of us in a lucky timezone.

Lets say LIV wins the civil war. If all top players defect, and all or the bulk of tourneys remain in north America, then I dont care who is running it - as long as they cut out the nonsense gimmicks and get back to proper full fields and 72 holes. And no jazz like teams.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

My understanding is the Ryder Cup captaincy is pretty full on, with a considerable amount of obligations and commitments.

Pretty certain the likes of McGinley and Bjorn admitted their playing careers were pretty much put on the back burner with all the other behind the scenes tasks the role demanded.

And then when they did play ET events, they were instrumental in working with the tour and event organisers in grouping players with realistic chances of making the RC team together on practice and tournament days; as well as meeting with individuals to get to know them better.

Given it's probably the ET's most prestigious position with the highest profile, then it's clear you can't have Europe's RC Captain signed up to play a rival tour.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Do any of us actually know what these contractual obligations that Stenson says he can fulfil & the Ryder Cup committee say he can't fulfil, are? Thought not.

Yet there are people hanging their hats on the fact that their side's version is the true one, because their side says so. You really couldn't make it up.

 

[hovis]

Do any of us actually know what these contractual obligations that Stenson says he can fulfil & the Ryder Cup committee say he can't fulfil are? Thought not.

Yet there are people hanging their hats on the fact that their side's version is the true one, because their side says so. You really couldn't make it up.

I was thinking the same. Talking about the details about his contract. Has anyone seen the contract?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There are several key points here with Stenson.

* if half his preferred team have left for LIV, does he want to pick a team of up and comers that get hammered?

* did the RC captain just put a higher price tag on his head?

* given past misfortune financially, it was right for “him” and his family.

We need to simply get over it and accept as this tour grows more will follow. My only sympathy’s are for those starting out their pro career who have chosen LIV who are on borrowed time. As big names come in, they will have to be pushed out in which case it’s humble pie time.

To answer the points

1. Doubtful as the Europeans that have left are imo the ones that wouldn’t be at the next Ryder Cup - looking at potential current standings the only player who would get in would be Casey .

2. Seems he will be getting the same deal as the likes of Westwood etc - he was also reportedly interested before the Mickelson interview and then he accepted the Captaincy , imo if he knew that it would have started then he wouldn’t have taken the captain role

3. Last the crucial bit within this - he did lose a lot of money in the past

I think right now LIV have who they can get until the situation in regards ranking points , majors etc or until some solution is found between the tours

 

[Oddsocks]

Do any of us actually know what these contractual obligations that Stenson says he can fulfil & the Ryder Cup committee say he can't fulfil, are? Thought not.

Yet there are people hanging their hats on the fact that their side's version is the true one, because their side says so. You really couldn't make it up.

You wouldn’t leave your current employer to go to their biggest competitor yet still expect the represent them at the annual awards ceremony, the same principle of common sense surely has to apply whether you have seen HS contract or not.

I have a gut feeling on what stenson has done and it was a very smart business based decision although a little under handed, but in his position and based on the past decisions many would have done the same.

As I have made perfectly clear both other tours are out spoken victims around the blood money situation which up until LIV there were prepared to take.

The true standing here would be to terminate any PIF/SA sponsorship of its events with immediate effect…. But they want their cake and to eat it twice.

 

[Imurg]

Here's something I'm struggling to get my head around....
The Majesticks (Jeez what a crap name) team is made up of Westy, Poulter, Horsefield and Cantor.
I'm sure I read, in the blurb for the Centurion event, that this team was set for the first 4 LIV events.
Stenson id going straight into the team so either Cantor or Horsefield are out, assuming they want to keep the other 2....
So what happens to the one who's dropped after 2 events..? When the team was set for the first 4..?
I appreciate that they will keep some players on a "retainer" in case of injury etc but these guys want to play golf, ok a bit less than they used to, they don't want to be sitting on their backsides every week as their games will get rusty..
The DP guys can probably play some events but the ex PGA guys..? (Assuming some of them get dropped to fit in a Cam Smith/Matsuyama etc etc.. )
I'd be more than a bit miffed if I'd, potentially, given up my chances on the DP for 4 events with LIV but getting dropped after 2....hope he still gets all his cash....

 

[Backsticks]

As I have made perfectly clear both other tours are out spoken victims around the blood money situation which up until LIV there were prepared to take.

Can you back up or reference the above charges against the other tours ?

Some people certainly are critical of the Saudi source of the LIV money.

But are the tours ? If they are, then yes, they are hypocritical, and chamging their policy for commercial not moral reasons.
If not, then people are unfairly linking a charge that some are making, as being made by the two main tours.

Have you a direct quote, or link from them on this point ?

 

[Aztecs27]

I think there are clearly divided opinions on what is a very political topic. I think based on that I’m going to continue lurking on this thread but not comment, it seems any conflicting opinion is like trying to put a forest fire out with petrol… it get heated!

In summary of my views please of offend

, I think LIV is here whether it’s for the good of the sport or not. The PGA has done a great job al be it with ZERO competition, but if LIV attracts a different audience and grows the sport further it has to be a great outcome. Golf has stagnated and viewing has become boring, they are trying something new to try and revive what is generally a boring TV sport. Have they got it right first time.. no, but at least they seem to be trying something different. It’s evolution and the sport needs to evolve to remain current as like it or not the traditionalists are dying off, it’s exactly the reason sports companies make golf gear and we done play in corded trouser and buttoned shirts.

Do we agree with the source of the funds, probably not but as I’ve commented before to accept sponsorship money for the other tours from the same sources is hypocrisy of the highest order. By the same token we all buy goods which no doubt have links whether it be fuel for the cars etc etc, so I find it impossible for us to sit in our ivory towers whiter than white.

Their country has an appalling history and if their investment in pro sports forces change via global acknowledgement and educations of its past then it has to be a positive. I was pretty oblivious to its history until it caused outrage when F1 went there, now golf and no doubt other sports if I did some digging.

My “personal” opinion is that the US tour found it perfectly acceptable to pillage every high profile player they wanted from Europe with a clear conscience and are now playing the victim when the favour is returned. I find it even more amazing that the euro tours have sided with the US tour given the damage it done to their “ brand “ as “ brand damage “ seems to be a big headline argument, to me it’s no different. Imagine being a character witness in court for the man who’s just burgled your house? The DP / euro tours had the perfect opportunity to have LIV host the big money events, have access to some high profile (past it or not) players for their events and the bottled it.

Enjoy the disagreeing

HighHorseSocks over and out.

It's not an airport mate, you don't need to announce your departure

 

[Bazz]

Wayne Grady laying it down on Greg. Ouch.

View attachment 43552

And then his son in law took the cash.

 

[Depreston]

And then his son in law took the cash.

Did he who is that

 

[Oddsocks]

Can you back up or reference the above charges against the other tours ?

Some people certainly are critical of the Saudi source of the LIV money.

But are the tours ? If they are, then yes, they are hypocritical, and chamging their policy for commercial not moral reasons.
If not, then people are unfairly linking a charge that some are making, as being made by the two main tours.

Have you a direct quote, or link from them on this point ?

Both tours have made references to the sources in which the Saudi money comes from, the sporting community like wise yet both tours still allow Saudi sponsors which is total hypocrisy.

You cannot condem the source of the money as the funding for LIV on one hand but be open to accepting financial sponsorship to support your events or tours on the other hand.

It’s black and white when it comes to banning players however it’s grey when is comes to receiving our scouting event sponsors.

Hey that’s just my opinion, it’s a personal view and is not factual. However some on here believe their views “ are factually correct” and everyone else remains wrong.

 

[Orikoru]

Here's something I'm struggling to get my head around....
The Majesticks (Jeez what a crap name) team is made up of Westy, Poulter, Horsefield and Cantor.
I'm sure I read, in the blurb for the Centurion event, that this team was set for the first 4 LIV events.
Stenson id going straight into the team so either Cantor or Horsefield are out, assuming they want to keep the other 2....
So what happens to the one who's dropped after 2 events..? When the team was set for the first 4..?
I appreciate that they will keep some players on a "retainer" in case of injury etc but these guys want to play golf, ok a bit less than they used to, they don't want to be sitting on their backsides every week as their games will get rusty..
The DP guys can probably play some events but the ex PGA guys..? (Assuming some of them get dropped to fit in a Cam Smith/Matsuyama etc etc.. )
I'd be more than a bit miffed if I'd, potentially, given up my chances on the DP for 4 events with LIV but getting dropped after 2....hope he still gets all his cash....

I agree.. I think if they end up doing better than they thought in attracting people they may have to drop the team element altogether.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Seen on here that some people seem to think I'm completely PRO Liv and Anti PGA Tour.

Simply not true I love watching the big historic PGA tour events and the Majors.
Im just keeping an open mind to Liv as I think some of what they are trying to do is good for attracting a younger audience to the game of golf which I genuinely think the sport needs.
Golf still has an image by the younger generation (speak to my teenage kids) of older guys/gals playing a not very exciting sport at very expensive golf courses.

I think some of what Liv are trying to do helps with attracting a younger audience, for example they are so much more open to letting social media content be involved in their events. I watched Brysons Portland video on his you tube channel last night. Young people dont watch Sky Sports, Golf Channel or NBC they watch Tik Tok and You Tube.

Liv doesnt look like its going anywhere soon so lets just get used to that.
If there are some top 50 players going to Liv they aint gonna go till the 2022 Fed Ex is finished.

The truth is that it is impossible right now to predict the golfing landscape in the next 24 months but in that time it would appear Liv is going to get stronger but whether that ever gets to a tipping point where more top 50 players are on Liv is hard to say and people on this thread can say its going to happen or no chance of it happening but no one really has a clue apart from Greg Norman who has his 2023 roster already signed up for next year and knows how many other top players he has considering a move.

 

[Oddsocks]

@TheBigDraw - I couldn’t agree more ???

I’ve actually thought about this over a nice flat white with an extra shot from Nero…. As you do.

A few have commented that once signing for a substantial pay cheque (which is no doubt relevant to their potential earnings over a set period) players have little motivation to play well as they have already cashed in, I myself also had concerns for the younger players who have potentially burned bridges, but here’s the twist.

With a limited field with limited spaces a regularly low scoring player is always at risk and surely there lies the motivations. Looking at Portland results Shaun Norris and Jediah Morgan would have no doubt earned more in that one event than they may have earned in a couple of years on whichever their current tour was.

With that in mind irrespective of their earnings as a low finisher their older has to be a risk with limited spaces and as the high profiles come in the lower ranked players will have to step up or get benched.

Out of nothing more than curiosity, have any of the tours issued statements as the the process required to re qualify to a tour should the player want to quit LIV.

 

[Ethan]

@TheBigDraw - I couldn’t agree more ???

I’ve actually thought about this over a nice flat white with an extra shot from Nero…. As you do.

A few have commented that once signing for a substantial pay cheque (which is no doubt relevant to their potential earnings over a set period) players have little motivation to play well as they have already cashed in, I myself also had concerns for the younger players who have potentially burned bridges, but here’s the twist.

With a limited field with limited spaces a regularly low scoring player is always at risk and surely there lies the motivations. Looking at Portland results Shaun Norris and Jediah Morgan would have no doubt earned more in that one event than they may have earned in a couple of years on whichever their current tour was.

With that in mind irrespective of their earnings as a low finisher their older has to be a risk with limited spaces and as the high profiles come in the lower ranked players will have to step up or get benched.

Out of nothing more than curiosity, have any of the tours issued statements as the the process required to re qualify to a tour should the player want to quit LIV.

Some of the lesser known players who are propping up the LIV scoring will have to be kicked out as more players come in.

 

[Oddsocks]

Some of the lesser known players who are propping up the LIV scoring will have to be kicked out as more players come in.

That’s just common sense Ethan. As I said with limited spaces as higher ranked players come in, lesser ranked players be benched or leave.

I’m curious as to their options should they be dropped from Liv

 

[Mel Smooth]

Some of the lesser known players who are propping up the LIV scoring will have to be kicked out as more players come in.

That applies to any tour, in fact any sport. I don’t know why people are making such a big deal about it. The lower ranked players will know the score, they know they can fall back on the Asian tour (which is growing), so if they have a couple of events on LIV, they’re quids in, and back to where they were prior to a couple of financially rewarding LIV events.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seen on here that some people seem to think I'm completely PRO Liv and Anti PGA Tour.

Simply not true I love watching the big historic PGA tour events and the Majors.
Im just keeping an open mind to Liv as I think some of what they are trying to do is good for attracting a younger audience to the game of golf which I genuinely think the sport needs.
Golf still has an image by the younger generation (speak to my teenage kids) of older guys/gals playing a not very exciting sport at very expensive golf courses.

I think some of what Liv are trying to do helps with attracting a younger audience, for example they are so much more open to letting social media content be involved in their events. I watched Brysons Portland video on his you tube channel last night. Young people dont watch Sky Sports, Golf Channel or NBC they watch Tik Tok and You Tube.

Liv doesnt look like its going anywhere soon so lets just get used to that.
If there are some top 50 players going to Liv they aint gonna go till the 2022 Fed Ex is finished.

The truth is that it is impossible right now to predict the golfing landscape in the next 24 months but in that time it would appear Liv is going to get stronger but whether that ever gets to a tipping point where more top 50 players are on Liv is hard to say and people on this thread can say its going to happen or no chance of it happening but no one really has a clue apart from Greg Norman who has his 2023 roster already signed up for next year and knows how many other top players he has considering a move.

The question I have asked in the post -

How does the events appeal to younger people compared to the standard events ?

What is the difference between the 6’s they tried ?

Is it because it’s broadcast on a tablet/smartphone friendly

As for the future - what happens next will mainly determined by what happens with ranking points etc - if LIV events get ranking points that allows entry into majors then that’s a game changer

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That applies to any tour, in fact any sport. I don’t know why people are making such a big deal about it. The lower ranked players will know the score, they know they can fall back on the Asian tour (which is growing), so if they have a couple of events on LIV, they’re quids in, and back to where they were prior to a couple of financially rewarding LIV events.

Is it lower ranked in terms of performance?

Two of the worst performing players are Phil Mickleson and McDowell - two players who have been paid to be there , would they get kicked out ? Or would it be players above then but who haven’t been paid money to be there ?

There is no doubt some players will have been given guarantees - playing in each event etc - regardless of how they perform,

Is that the same as other tours ? It doesn’t matter who you are - if your spot 126 then you lose your card. If Micklson comes last every event will he lose his playing rights on LiV tour