sweaty sock
Hacker
Couldn't have proven the point better.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Couldn't have proven the point better.
GB72
Money List Winner
On a golfing point of view, and I am sure that I am very much in a minority with a very wierd view on this, but I would actually like more of a division between where the top golfers play. Now, hear me out on this, I know that I am being a bit strange (and maybe totally wrong) but I seem to recall when I was much younger that the Europeans did not play in PGA tour events much and vice versa. So, when it came to the majors, it was this massive build up of the best in Europe taking on the best in America etc and those events jiust seemed special and you would cheer on any European doing well and actually felt investered enough to support someone. Again, not denegrating the majors now but the fiield is pretty much the smae as any of the bigger PGA tour events and feels less special as a result and I have lost that us vs them rivalry.
Again, may be wrong, may be being weird but I just see something special about how I rememeber majors used to be.
Ethan
Money List Winner
I agree that the idea of a World Tour sounds great. Have a bunch of 15 or so marquee events, probably 7 or 8 in the US, 3 or 4 in Europe, a couple in SA, one in Oz and one in UAE, one in SE Asia, and that would be great. The regular season PGA Tout and DP World Tour could run as well.
The problem is that the LIV Tour is driven by 2 unpleasant motivations.
One is sport washing. There is no doubt that Saudi royal family want to sanitise their image. The only debate is between people who care about that or not. I expect the Saudis would be happy to work with the PGA Tour to do so. They don't care, their outcome is a laundered public image.
The other one is Greg Norman, who has a bone to pick with the PGA Tour. He is much less happy to reach agreement, he wants vengeance. He considers that the PGA Tour has not shown him the respect he thinks he deserves. He also bears resentment from the rejection of the mid-90s ideas for a world tour and resents missing out on a career swansong in such a Tour. Adding Trump to the mix is a sure sign he does not want to settle, because the PGA Tour hates Trump and will not have one of his events in their schedule.
If the LIV Tour wants a deal (as opposed to legal settlement) with the PGA Tour, they need to get rid of Norman and Trump.
Golfnut1957
Newbie
I to have become a lurker on this thread, but I liked your post so much I thought I would add a little to it.
My personal gripe from the off has been the hypocrisy of the PGA Tour hiding behind "blood money" when in fact it has always been about LIV doing to it what they have done to the DPWT. The other aspect that I find completely hypocritical is found in this answer by Norman to a question posed by the Palm Beach Post. Link Below.
Q: Your reaction to the players who have been outspoken against LIV?
A: Shame on (those) who create this firestorm of controversy when you look within their own system when they got 23 odd sponsors who do $40-plus billion dollars of business with Saudi Arabia. C'mon, seriously? If you're going to go down this path just be ready to accept you're going to get some stuff coming back your way. And it's not hard to find it.
https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/...our-firestorm-more-exclusive-q-a/10033337002/
Ethan
Money List Winner
It is ridiculous to equate FedEx having a delivery set up in Saudi, or Marriott having hotels with taking money directly from the Saudi royal family, and Norman knows it. The Plan Beach post is unlikely to be an objective observer, since both Norman and Trump live in the area.
That argument is also like equating those who take money directly from Putin with Pfizer providing medicines to ordinary Russians.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
“Golf has stagnated and viewing has become boring, they are trying something new to try and revive what is generally a boring TV sport. Have they got it right first time.. no, but at least they seem to be trying something different. It’s evolution and the sport needs to evolve to remain current as like it or not the traditionalists are dying off, it’s exactly the reason sports companies make golf gear and we done play in corded trouser and buttoned shirts.”
“Sport needs to evolve”
It’s a common phrase that always seems to be banded around a bit
Is the sport right now not current ? People are playing it more , clubs are booming , people are packing our events when they are hosted in the UK for example.
Is it the desire for the sport to follow cricket and produce a shorten format ? A sport which is struggling to get people to play it
I remember when they tried the 6’s at Centurion - it was short , fun , mixed and people seemed to enjoy it
They struggled to get players to commit to it - not sure why - I can only think of one difference between the 6’s they tried and the LIV - money
Golf on Telly is strange , when it’s your regular event im guessing only die hard golf fans watch it , I don’t really mainly because it’s on during the day and then in the evening
I watch the majors and that’s your regular golfing set up - and as this weekend showed is unmatched excitement for the sport - some may have found it a bit boring
If it’s the desire is to bring in a team element , it’s always tough in a sport that’s predominantly individual, I don’t know how people get attached to a team ?
I’m a huge Somerset Cricket fan - the Hundred imo is the LIV golf equivalent and I thought it was awful and there was no team that I could attach too.
The one point that I’m really struggling with is this idea that the PGA pillage high profile players - players go to the PGA tour because it improves their game , it helps them improve in the majors , the reason why Fitzpatrick won the US Open - because he moved to play the US Tour , same with any player , it’s tougher to win , it’s tougher to keep your card , it is and always has been the ground where all the top pros want to play. The European Tour has always been behind and always will be and for more reasons that just money.
The PGA tour weren’t giving players £100’s mil to just come and play - the PGA tour is open to anyone who wants to qualify and play in their events - it’s on at prime time UK viewing and it gives players the base to improve. Not moving to the US earlier prob stopped the likes of Monty , Westwood etc from winning majors
And the ET were looking for a better partnership with the PGA tour and they got it and will continue to work that way
“Sport needs to evolve”
It’s a common phrase that always seems to be banded around a bit
Is the sport right now not current ? People are playing it more , clubs are booming , people are packing our events when they are hosted in the UK for example.
Is it the desire for the sport to follow cricket and produce a shorten format ? A sport which is struggling to get people to play it
I remember when they tried the 6’s at Centurion - it was short , fun , mixed and people seemed to enjoy it
They struggled to get players to commit to it - not sure why - I can only think of one difference between the 6’s they tried and the LIV - money
Golf on Telly is strange , when it’s your regular event im guessing only die hard golf fans watch it , I don’t really mainly because it’s on during the day and then in the evening
I watch the majors and that’s your regular golfing set up - and as this weekend showed is unmatched excitement for the sport - some may have found it a bit boring
If it’s the desire is to bring in a team element , it’s always tough in a sport that’s predominantly individual, I don’t know how people get attached to a team ?
I’m a huge Somerset Cricket fan - the Hundred imo is the LIV golf equivalent and I thought it was awful and there was no team that I could attach too. The one point that I’m really struggling with is this idea that the PGA pillage high profile players - players go to the PGA tour because it improves their game , it helps them improve in the majors , the reason why Fitzpatrick won the US Open - because he moved to play the US Tour , same with any player , it’s tougher to win , it’s tougher to keep your card , it is and always has been the ground where all the top pros want to play. The European Tour has always been behind and always will be and for more reasons that just money.
The PGA tour weren’t giving players £100’s mil to just come and play - the PGA tour is open to anyone who wants to qualify and play in their events - it’s on at prime time UK viewing and it gives players the base to improve. Not moving to the US earlier prob stopped the likes of Monty , Westwood etc from winning majors
And the ET were looking for a better partnership with the PGA tour and they got it and will continue to work that way
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Isn't that argument nullified by the talk of the LIV players joining the Asian tour en masse? More traveling and more time away from home than playing on the PGA tour.
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Back in the 80’s the level of Europeans playing on the PGA tour was lower than it is now but some still travelled across for some main events - they had invited etc , a number of them went over and played before majors over there then came back.
Seve and Faldo started to play more and then when it became easier for travel etc they started to gain their tour card in the 90’s and play over there more whilst still coming playing on the ET events
The ET started to Also branch out in the 90’s to attached golfers from South Africa , Asia , Middle East etc
The prob or issue started when Golf in the UK took a bit of a downturn , we were losing events in the UK , mainly through lack of sponsership and weather at times , golf wasn’t a popular sport , the boom was on its way down. Players could fly all over the world playing in the ET or try and earn their PGA tour card and base themselves in Florida as most of them of them did from the mid 00’s
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I thought it was a fair statement from Stenson and I agreed with him to be honest. I don't see why playing LIV events should preclude him from being RC Captain, other than the suspensions which are borne out of pettiness and desperation.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
FTFY ?
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Makes you wonder if they had a commitment to add x more players in July or something. I've said previously I thought they'd have more chance of 'signings' after August.
Don't know how significant this is -
2022 3M SOF 113, winner 26 points
2021 3M SOF 222, winner 40 points
The purse looks higher in 2022
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Can you really not see why the European Ryder Cup committee would not want their Captain to move away from the ET ?
Players make their choices and their membership will come with certain rules etc but the Captain of the Ryder Cup makes both contractually and morally commitments to the European Ryder Cup.
It’s clear moving to LIV meant that he couldn’t fulfill the contract obligations set out but morally they wouldn’t want their captain to be involved in all this
And it’s also suspensions borne out of protecting the tour and the membership.
He stated in his letter that LIV had agreed to allow him to fulfill all Ryder Cup contractual agreements.
Most of the European team play out in the US and play only a handful of tournaments on the ET (DPWT now of course). There is no reason why he and others could not do a combination of LIV and ET, the template has already been set.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Will you stop if with the sensible and unbiased views please ?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Exactly this. The captain is always someone who's past their prime and often playing sparingly. I'm sure his intention would have been to retain European Tour membership and divide his time as you said, ensuring he had enough spare time for the captaincy duties.
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
There was some social media talk that GN was saying that’s it now for the year , they won’t be asking any others to join. He said if someone approached them then they would look to see what can be done.
The two events after the last major would always be a lot lower in standard
Right now the focus is mainly on the ladies and seniors Tour
And Ryder Cup stated in their letter than him joining meant he couldn’t fulfill his contractual obligations by joining LiV - what obligations they are could be anything that could include not joining an unofficial recognised tour that isn’t involved in Ryder Cup
And yes the template is there - the players can play on the recognised tours gaining the required points to play
So yes a template where there is a working relationship between the tours
The same would have happened if the US captain left to join LIV . I
GB72
Money List Winner
Again, as per my earlier views, if the Ryder Cup Committee had come out and simply stated that the find the Saudi record on human rights abhorrent and so would not tolerate anyone involved with them being part of their event then that would 100% get my support. Unable to fulfil contractual obligations, not so much.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
There are several key points here with Stenson.
* if half his preferred team have left for LIV, does he want to pick a team of up and comers that get hammered?
* did the RC captain just put a higher price tag on his head?
* given past misfortune financially, it was right for “him” and his family.
We need to simply get over it and accept as this tour grows more will follow. My only sympathy’s are for those starting out their pro career who have chosen LIV who are on borrowed time. As big names come in, they will have to be pushed out in which case it’s humble pie time.
* if half his preferred team have left for LIV, does he want to pick a team of up and comers that get hammered?
* did the RC captain just put a higher price tag on his head?
* given past misfortune financially, it was right for “him” and his family.
We need to simply get over it and accept as this tour grows more will follow. My only sympathy’s are for those starting out their pro career who have chosen LIV who are on borrowed time. As big names come in, they will have to be pushed out in which case it’s humble pie time.
I'm sorry. I've given myself a slap and normal service can now be renewed
