Ethan
Money List Winner
Oh, its going to get worse. Rumours that LIV Golf have done a deal with a manufacturer of iron head covers and are going to issue them to every player.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Oh, its going to get worse. Rumours that LIV Golf have done a deal with a manufacturer of iron head covers and are going to issue them to every player.
One might say Mel is an apologist for the Saudi Tour though rather than Saudis as a people and undemocratic regime.
From 'Dictionary'
Apologist:
a person who offers an argument in defence of something controversial.
"critics said he was an apologist for colonialism"
Though I am not sure which is worse - the Saudi Tour 'innovations' really are cack too.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
From 'Dictionary'
Apologist:
a person who offers an argument in defence of something controversial.
"critics said he was an apologist for colonialism"
Another completely pointless and worthless comment from you FH.
Please stop feeling like you have to reply to every single post I make on here.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
I'm a fan of the LIV series, doesn't mean I'm happy with the source of the funding.
Foxholer
Blackballed
To me, it's different where it's 'government policy', so I have little control over it - except, perhaps, to protest against the government policy.
Like your Matsuyama analogy btw.
And I agree...post The Open, there will be plenty of speculation/activity.
Ethan
Money List Winner
It is all on a spectrum.
Every person with a private pension fund probably has investments in arms, dodgy companies, Saudi, Russia, tobacco, etc.
The spectrum runs from stuff like that which is kinda hidden like the pension funds, through more explicit relationships to outright open and brazen willingness to knowingly take money directly from the Saudi Royal Family, widely believed to be directly responsible for ordering Khashoggi's assassination, to assist a strategy to launder the Saudi reputation. Same would apply if Putin funded a Tour run out of Belarus. LIV Golf lives pretty near that extreme end.
Sponsorship of an LET event by Aramco is not that far off, but not quite so explicit. Players have a choice whether they take part or not. That choice is a bit more constrained for the LET than it would be on the longer schedule of the DPWT.
Buying petrol or diesel or heating your home with fuel which may have origins in Saudi or Russia is a long way away, and you may have no choice.
Players are entitled to do what they want, but at least they should be honest about it. DJ has basically said he is doing it for the money and reduced schedule, simple as that. That is honest at least. Poulter and others were told plainly they would be kicked off the other Tours. They went into LIV Golf with their eyes open but are now whining about it. I have zero sympathy for them and I hope their ongoing legal action fails. Getting into the Scottish was a short term holding position. Even shorter than he expected for Putter, T138, +10, missed cut by a mile. The legal case is far from settled.
Thats the bit that doesnt compute with any of the world that is not on the Saudi payroll.
From a pure sporting point of view, and from a sports as entertainment point of view, even allowing for the possibility that the current low quality field of fundamentally has-beens and true unknowns might improve in time, its 'innovations' are simply nonsense gimmicks. This is my objection to it, and that of most observers. Some add in the Saudi/human rights element of top of that as a double whammy. So it offers nothing. If it hoovers up all the worlds best, and I grant that is quite possible to happen, then it will be the best/only game in town. But still a lesser game the the PGAT as it has been.
It’s not unavoidable, you make your own choice.
Ethan
Money List Winner
OK, interesting. Lets split the discussion in two, and park the Saudi money.
What differentiators between LIV and PGA do you like? 54 holes, no cut, shotgun, teams .....
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Foxholer
Blackballed
Just doing my bit to improve the use of the English language!
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Just doing my bit to improve the use of the English language!
Foxy
Take 5 please, you’re not adding to the debate, just causing friction…….again
D-S
Well-known member
Looks like the R and A have made their view public.
Ah, the excuse of the entitled… if you’re happy with that, crack on. Do you realise how shallow your argument reads? I accept I need petrol, or in reality the globalisation that the whole package brings, e.g. the materials in the clothes you wear and the grips on your clubs.
Fine, just accept that the computer says “yes” but don’t hide behind “indirect.” It just makes you look like a mercenary.
Low quality field? How many decry the Senior‘s Tour? There’s some very shallow arguments on here, and yours is one of them.
Is the ET top class? Does it rank up against the Liv?
I genuinely don’t care either way but some of the shallow, pathetic, hypocritical arguments are hilarious. The PGA Tour has bullied the other tours, including forcing date changes on them since the mists of time.
I don’t want the PGA Tour to fail, not that it will, but I’d love to see its power diminished. I’d love to see the ET tour grow, and a (guarded) alliance might help. Beyond that, there’s so much business done with Saudi, in so many spheres, the pathetic arguments on here are puerile.
No one decrys the Seniors tour, because it is clearly a lower league. If LIV saw that as its market, the it would be fine. But it wants the worlds best, no compromises, and by that meadure the field is has beens, and unlnowns in the majority. That is a fact, not a shallow argument.
It doesnt, and I have never claimed it does. Rather, I have stated several times, it is a second division to the PGAT. But again, second division is not the Saudi target. The PGAT, and its prime players, are.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
The LIV series will get a significant amount of the worlds best players before the end of the year. Once The Open is gone, there'll be quite a few wanting to get in while they have the chance.
Give it a few years, and it will be similar to The Champions League in football, money talks.
Give it a few years, and it will be similar to The Champions League in football, money talks.
Foxholer
Blackballed
To me, it's about the same quality currently - maybe a little lower. The current OWGR rankings indicate DPWT (if Rory is included) of the top players are higher for DPWT, but maybe not for further down. A lot more 'old (and faded?) stars' in LIV.
DPWT has always been distinctly 2ndry to TPGAT.
LIV's 'battle' has always been with TPGAT. No different to last time Norman tried to take them on - with a remarkably similar format.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Except Champions League has qualification. LIV doesn't - currently.
Ability to play in Majors is a better comparison, with maybe USA's MLS Soccer being a 'better, if still iffy' equivalent to LIV currently, but with greater potential for growth.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
LIV will be comparatively far bigger than MLS, it already has a widespread global appeal that the MLS doesn't, and will never have.
Do they need qualification? Well, if it becomes accepted that good results and finishing positions on the other tours may result in an invite to LIV, then possibly not.
There will always be some players who will refuse to play on the LIV series of course, but there will be plenty out there now who will be hoping to get a shot - certainly enough to massively disrupt the position of the PGA Tour as the No 1 tour.
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