Anoetic
New member
Not necessary more fun, but atm there is no paywall hence available to a wider audience….and if that changes then I’ll go back to not watching golf on tv ?
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LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
All tournaments should be restricted to 54 players...that's how you grow the game.
Fewer players = bigger game
Yeah but don't forget it's primarily about having fun with your mates........and having your caddy taken care of........!
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
AussieKB
Well-known member
How can you be lifetime member of the European Tour and then be banned from playing in their events ?
makes a mockery of giiving someone a lifetime honorary.
makes a mockery of giiving someone a lifetime honorary.
r0wly86
Head Pro
honours are always removeable, they are honours not absolute rights
Swango1980
Well-known member
Again, unless Poulter specifically said he does not want to ever play in consecutive weeks, I just don't know how you think your point in this case is valid? It basically sounds like you are trying to prove that Poulter was lying about wanting to play less golf, simply because he now wants to play in consecutive weeks for one part of the year.I just expressed my opinion ?
The talk was about the players playing “LESS golf” - not playing week after week , bigger gaps inbetween events etc , less travel away from family etc etc
Yet here is Poulter wanting to play again the week after Portland and talking about supporting the tour etc - so that imo is him not being entirely honest and prob using it as practice for The Open but again that’s just my opinion - I could be wrong or I could be right ?
The way I see it is that he wants to play LIV, but he also wants to support the ET and possibly PGA Tour when he gets the chance. He clearly feels he will need to play less events over a year, and so he can be more selective in which Tour events he wants to play. I would find that this point of view is entirely credible. Whereas, you are using one piece of information and trying to completely spin it to sound that Poulter want to play at least the same amount, if not more golf than he did before. Huge leap there.
Nobody is obliged to watch 4 days. You have said yourself only the last two days matter. So 4 days golf or not, you are free to tune in for the last couple of hours on yhe last day.
And I dont think anyone is swallowing that free to air line anymore. The Saudi are not behind one because they couldnt get behind one. If they could, they would reverse their position as sharply as Westwood or Perez, jump, and pull the plug on free access youtube.
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
Billy Ho has his thoughts ?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I’m not trying to “prove” anything - I’m just giving an opinion ?
You are more than welcome to disagreeThe opinion is nice and simple - no matter what the players say about playing less etc etc as reason for going to LIV for me it’s all about one thing - the money , at least some of the players have admitted it , all the other stuff is just excuses to try and get away from the fact they are just greedy
So to clarify for you - all the excuses and reasons they have given about playing less and spending time with the family is imo just lies
Guess I’m not the only one.
And yes Poulter will want to pick and choose when and where he plays ( less golf more money ) , he claims he didn’t understand the consequences of playing in the LIV tour ( he must be very daft ) but unfortunately for him that’s not how it works with the PGA and ET as soon as he jumped ship for the money - if he wants to play on the PGA tour then he must abide by their rules , if he wants to play on the ET he must abide by their rules , if he can’t do that then he can’t pick and choose and he will just have to play the 8 events a year on the LIV tour
Ethan
Money List Winner
If the rules of membership say that you can't join a rival tour, I expect.
How can someone complain when something they were warned would happen if they pursue a certain course of action then happens?
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
Consequently, most of the guys who have "remained" (or spoken out against it) have been those who I'd associate with being first class top blokes (Rory, Billy Ho, Fred Couples) and those who have defected have either not been a surprise, given how they've carried themselves previously (see: Patrick Reed, BdC and Koepka) or are not surprising, given their personality (see: Poults). A few have shocked me a bit, but have shown their true colours from what I've seen and heard from them.
In my opinion, of course.
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Im pretty sure it will end up behind a paywall, at which point the PGA tour really does have a problem, because they will then be competing for television deals with LIV - so unless the money on the table goes up massively, the PGA tour tv revenue will significantly diminish.
It also means the LIV series has cemented its position in the professional golfing calendar.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I’m not trying to “prove” anything - I’m just giving an opinion ?
The opinion is nice and simple - no matter what the players say about playing less etc etc as reason for going to LIV for me it’s all about one thing - the money , at least some of the players have admitted it , all the other stuff is just excuses to try and get away from the fact they are just greedy
So to clarify for you - all the excuses and reasons they have given about playing less and spending time with the family is imo just lies
Guess I’m not the only one.
And yes Poulter will want to pick and choose when and where he plays ( less golf more money ) , he claims he didn’t understand the consequences of playing in the LIV tour ( he must be very daft ) but unfortunately for him that’s not how it works with the PGA and ET as soon as he jumped ship for the money - if he wants to play on the PGA tour then he must abide by their rules , if he wants to play on the ET he must abide by their rules , if he can’t do that then he can’t pick and choose and he will just have to play the 8 events a year on the LIV tour
In my opinion, absolutely ridiculous point of view you have there.
Every single one of us knows that money is the main driving factor. Every time I have heard a player asked about it, they have also said the money was a key factor. What player has said money has nothing to do with it. We also know that if the money was the same as the PGA Tour, they probably would not have gone to LIV. Not even if the money was a little higher than the PGA Tour most likely. Everyone knows this, so it really isn't a point worth debating.
However, just because the money is much better, that does not automatically mean that every other issue surrounding LIV must be negative and worse than the existing tours. It is blatantly obvious that if a player signs up to LIV, they can feel they don't need to play as much golf as before. It takes the pressure off them, knowing they pretty much have a guaranteed high income. And, they only play for 3 days each event. So, how can you not see this as having more time off, time in which they can do as they please, such as seeing more of their family? That seems to be a huge additional benefit for players. I am sure they will then also go and try and see any other positives they can think off. You'd have to be a pretty miserable person to take a job for better money, and then just be constantly negative about every other factor related to that job.
But, if it is your opinion that any job that pays more than another similar job must be worse in every other measurable factor, then you are welcome to it.
So you are arguing that its a stength of the Saudi tour not to be behind a paywall, and that it will be an even greater strength to be behind one when it is.
Sounds like Boris speak : we are stronger in the EU until we are out and then we are stronger out.
Foxholer
Blackballed
All highly debatable spurious opinions. As I've posted several times, I've found it a 'difficult' watch. The nearly half million views was ok (I may have been responsible for a 4 or 5 of them) but doesn't compare to the numbers normal PGAT golf gets - CBS stats for the John Deere final round in a standard year gets 1.5m+ so add Sky figures (unavailable) and that's vastly more than for LIV. Describing it as 'fun', at least from a viewers pov, is just ridiculous imo. Only for the greedy players could it be described as 'fun'. Watching ANY additional golf will likely 'raise awareness of golf', but I'd challenge both the extent and the permanence of any increase. LIV is, to me, just comparable to travelling circus - worth watching/going to if convenient/nearby but not something to follow every instance. And there was, perhaps understandably, very little coverage of the players not in contention - no different to 'normal' coverage. Even the 'team' event doesn't include the entire team, so is 'manufactured' - effectively 1 or 2 members being told to fk off but we'll still obscenely give you loadsamoney.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
That makes no sense, giving Zero prize money for missing the cut, means there is more available for those that make the cut. Those that make the cut most often are the players you are taking about. The only losers from no pay for missing the cut, are those that miss the cut most often. This argument from LIV supporters is the least credible of them all.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
So it’s a ridiculous pov to believe that players are there for one reason only - the money but then you go on to state it’s a key reason for them being there ?
I also don’t believe a player has stated it’s not about the money or that someone suggested that - what we have seen is players bypass the questions and waffle on about other excuses in regards going to the LIV tour - when it is all about the money , it is a simple as that for me
i know they will get more time off ?
But that’s not their reason for going to LIVim not sure where you got that conclusion from ?
The reasons why I believe LIV is bad for the sport are pretty
1. The money - players being paid huge amounts just to turn up
2. Where the money is coming - Saudi blood money
The two biggest reasons
Would also add Greg Norman as being the next reason why it’s bad for the sport
shotguns starts , team games, 54 holes etc aren’t “bad” for the game , they are just gimmicks which at times have been tried
This is a league/tournament that’s solely funded by a state - and a state with horrific human rights issues amongst other things - just as I think the boxing match there or the GP there are not good things
But I think we have exhausted it now and will agree to disagree
Swango1980
Well-known member
It is not my argument to make. It would be a personal argument by a player potentially. I was simply seeing a point of view that, they turn up for some relatively minor PGA event that they would probably rather do without from a purely golfing point of view. But, they do so to keep their sponsors, PGA Tour sponsors, etc happy in the main. The sponsors obviously wanting to see them there to create more interest in the tournament. Then, if that player misses the cut, they might see it as a complete waste of their time.
I'm not saying I agree with that point of view. The big players have already made themselves extremely wealthy, with the PGA Tour that vehicle to get them there. I'm just saying that when they get to the stage of being a high profile player, they would like more reward for the PGA Tour using that players pulling power. Not sure if this was along the lines of what Mickleson was getting at originally, when he took a swipe at the PGA Tour and control of media rights, etc.?
Foxholer
Blackballed
Not when I have to turn the dire commentary down!
Swango1980
Well-known member
Someone needs to educate you about the difference between "one reason only" and "a key reason". I'll give you a hint. If something is classified as a key reason, then it suggests that there are OTHER reasons, but the key reason is the primary one. Whereas one reason only suggests it is the ONLY reason.So it’s a ridiculous pov to believe that players are there for one reason only - the money but then you go on to state it’s a key reason for them being there ?
I also don’t believe a player has stated it’s not about the money or that someone suggested that - what we have seen is players bypass the questions and waffle on about other excuses in regards going to the LIV tour - when it is all about the money , it is a simple as that for me
i know they will get more time off ?
im not sure where you got that conclusion from ?
The reasons why I believe LIV is bad for the sport are pretty
1. The money - players being paid huge amounts just to turn up
2. Where the money is coming - Saudi blood money
The two biggest reasons
Would also add Greg Norman as being the next reason why it’s bad for the sport
shotguns starts , team games, 54 holes etc aren’t “bad” for the game , they are just gimmicks which at times have been tried
This is a league/tournament that’s solely funded by a state - and a state with horrific human rights issues amongst other things - just as I think the boxing match there or the GP there are not good things
I have no issue with several arguments against LIV. I can see exactly why players would be attracted by the money, and don't really blame them, but it doesn't really help the fans. The events have no history as yet, and with no world ranking points, they just feel like one off exhibition games. The team aspect, I agree, is a gimmick at the moment. I played a pairs event at the weekend, and we jokingly gave ourselves the team name "Pin Seekers". The teams on LIV have little more prestige than my Pin Seekers team. I don't like the shotgun start, and they seem to cram so many golf shots into an hours footage. It is like a highlights program, whereas I personally like the build up to shots, and sometimes a little bit of punditry to breakdown a players swing, or commenting on the pressure they are under and a mistake they made.
So, I personally have no love or excitement for LIV yet, except for an interest on where it is all going to end up. We can talk about blood money all we like, but until we demand our government makes it illegal for players (or any other person) to accept Saudi money, then I'm not going to start making moral judgements on peoples decisions to accept the money. If people choose not to take Saudi business or go on holiday there, that is absolutely fine. However, if someone else does decide to go and work in the Middle East or go on holiday there, I will again have no issue with this
