LIV Golf

[GB72]

Can someone please explain how watching LiV players hit shots is ‘more fun’ than watching non LiV players hit shots?

From my point of view, because they are not on Sky and so I can actually watch LIV players hit shots rather than just imagine what shots they may be hitting

 

[Beezerk]

Can someone please explain how watching LiV players hit shots is ‘more fun’ than watching non LiV players hit shots?

Well it’s free for a start lol.

 

[Ethan]

Maybe some of the bigger players realise that, if they choose to play on any regular PGA / ET event, that will automatically make that even more attractive to the fans that follow them, and also make them more attractive in pulling in sponsorship to that event. So, maybe it frustrates them that their presence can generate a huge amount for the event / tour (even if they miss the cut), yet if they then miss the cut, they get no benefit at all.

They don't attract many fans to the last 2 rounds, though. Would players be willing to see the same overall purses divided across all players rather than just those who miss the cut?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Who benefits from Poulter being given x amount of millions for turning up ?

Golf or Poulter ?

what about the £125mil plus BDC was given ? Is that a benefit to the sport or to BDC ?

you can keep going but sport doesn’t always benefit when vast amounts of money are brought into an already rich game

There will be many who believe that the riches offered within football have ruined the game

Here is a bunch of events that have huge amounts of money , are restricted by invite only and have reduce the amount of golf on show ? Is less more now ?

LiV golf is not been done for the benefit of the game , it’s not been done to grow the game , it’s someone trying to rock the boat , muscle in and create something that wasn’t needed , is sportswashing and using billions to fund it

People will look at the level of money being given - the source of the money and be appalled by it

The money invested in Poulter and BDC etc is just that, an investment in a new venture. They have been brought in to give the series strong foundations on which to build, to draw the crowds and golfing worlds attention, and they have 100% succeeded in doing that. The stars of the series maybe Koepka, DJ, etc, or in a few years cut may be some players that have developed on the LIV series - Poulter was not brought in to be challenging for wins on the coming years.
The pro game has been crying out for something to make it more appealing to the masses, the LIV series fills that gap. And yes, less is more, without too much trouble I watched pretty much all of the first event - I simply could not be arsed to sit down and watch 4 days of a mundane tour event - assuming the coverage was even available.

 

[Swango1980]

They don't attract many fans to the last 2 rounds, though. Would players be willing to see the same overall purses divided across all players rather than just those who miss the cut?

By that stage, many fans that tuned in to the first 2 rounds have already invested themselves into the event, and will continue to watch as the leaderboard shapes up. Fans who tuned in originally to see the likes of DJ or Bryson will have got to see another player(s), who they may never have heard of, have a great first 2 rounds, and then continue to watch that player(s) through the weekend. These relatively unknown players get themselves on the map, because many fans originally tuned in to see a high profile player. Furthermore, I don't think sponsors and broadcasters take away some of their investment if high profile players do not make the cut?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Absolutely. However, it seems hypocritical to be happy for the tours to "bend rules" to suit themselves, and yet get all angry and upset when players make decisions that they feel benefit themselves.

The Tour aren’t getting “angry and upset” - they are just applying their rules to protect themselves

The players as they keep saying are “self employed” etc so they can make their own choices when and where they play - it will be up to each events and tour to decide if those players are allowed to enter that competition

All seems fair to me

 

[Imurg]

Well it’s free for a start lol.

And it's louder...

 

[GB72]

And it's louder...

At my age, that helps

 

[Deleted member 15344]

From my point of view, because they are not on Sky and so I can actually watch LIV players hit shots rather than just imagine what shots they may be hitting

I had a look on the Friday I think it was and for me the positive is that it’s free to air - that will always be a good thing and imo it’s something that all the majors should be etc - unfortunately it’s hard to do that when the governing bodies sell the rights to the highest bidder

On the coverage a few things stood out

1. The commentary- was “enthusiastic” if a bit shouty at times and didn’t seem to flow

2. You did see lots of shots but it seemed to just jump from shot to shot and you really didn’t get a feel about what was happening when they were showing shots , it didn’t seem very structured- maybe because everyone is on the course they are just trying to get it all in

But I don’t think anyone will ever complain about golf or indeed sport being free to air

And if one good thing can come out of this maybe the tours need to look at that - other sports are starting to allow more sports to be free to air during big events etc and imo the worst thing to happen was losing the Open to Sky

 

[Swango1980]

The Tour aren’t getting “angry and upset” - they are just applying their rules to protect themselves

The players as they keep saying are “self employed” etc so they can make their own choices when and where they play - it will be up to each events and tour to decide if those players are allowed to enter that competition

All seems fair to me

I wasn't talking about the Tour, I was talking about you. I was getting the impression you were getting angry / upset with the players who decided to sign up to LIV. I was judging this on the monumental amount of time and effort you have put into voicing your opinions on this thread, so you obviously feel strongly about it. You seem to be throwing any potential reason you can possibly think off to shine a negative light on the players, to the point I have no idea which opinions you genuinely have, and what statements you are just throwing in there as you think they can back up the "LIV players are bad" argument. This criticism is not necessarily solely towards you, I probably get this impression from some others, on both sides of the fence.

Today, in post 3280, you seemed to be suggesting Poulters reasoning of wanting more time was rubbish, simply because he wanted to play in an event outside LIV. This of course was a silly argument. You said he does not support the European Tour, as he has only played 8 times in 3 years there (although others have disputed your figures, and a quick google from myself seems to show your figures don't make sense). Your comment that he only plays when it is convenient to him, I'm guessing, wasn't meant as a positive comment towards Poulter? You used it to try and back up your argument he does not support the ET. However, does he have to play any ET events at all? There are plenty of other players on the PGA Tour who do not play as many ET events as Poulter, and I'm sure Poulter could potentially have a more comfortable schedule by playing less ET events (especially in recent years). However, he still appears to ensure that he commits enough ET events on his own schedule. It is not an either/or situation. A player can make an effort to support a Tour, whilst still picking and choosing events that best fit their schedule.

 

[Ethan]

The Tour aren’t getting “angry and upset” - they are just applying their rules to protect themselves

The players as they keep saying are “self employed” etc so they can make their own choices when and where they play - it will be up to each events and tour to decide if those players are allowed to enter that competition

All seems fair to me

But they have signed contracts which include limitations on playing elsewhere, among other restrictions.

 

[Jimaroid]

But I don’t think anyone will ever complain about golf or indeed sport being free to air

I also agree with the principal of free to air, but Liv is a bait and switch. There are only two possible future revenue models

1. Advertising.
2. Subscription.

I can see a future where a Liv App exists as a subscription service. It is the same problem that other broadcasters are dealing with at the moment in fighting for audience share.

YouTube is moving to a combination of Advertising AND Subscription. So I'd say to those enjoying "free golf" to enjoy this period while it lasts, if you can.

 

[Depreston]

231,000 people on the bbc test match live coverage page puts the LIV numbers into perspective

 

[GB72]

231,000 people on the bbc test match live coverage page puts the LIV numbers into perspective

That can be deceptive as I can have the live text of the Test Match on subltly at my desk but not a Youtube golf event. In fact Youtube may even be blocked but BBC Is not.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I wasn't talking about the Tour, I was talking about you. I was getting the impression you were getting angry / upset with the players who decided to sign up to LIV. I was judging this on the monumental amount of time and effort you have put into voicing your opinions on this thread, so you obviously feel strongly about it. You seem to be throwing any potential reason you can possibly think off to shine a negative light on the players, to the point I have no idea which opinions you genuinely have, and what statements you are just throwing in there as you think they can back up the "LIV players are bad" argument. This criticism is not necessarily solely towards you, I probably get this impression from some others, on both sides of the fence.

Nope not angry or upset ?‍ It’s just a debate at the end of the day and one where I hope people don’t start pointing fingers at posters ?

People have strong opinions on both sides and I would hope people just debate the opinions as opposed to the poster

And certainly no “monumental effort” - but let’s get back to the subject

Today, in post 3280, you seemed to be suggesting Poulters reasoning of wanting more time was rubbish, simply because he wanted to play in an event outside LIV. This of course was a silly argument.

I’m confused when it was decided what was a silly argument or not

And also have seen the notion about wanting to play less but then also wanting to play more been banded around by a number of people on social media - I think it’s a valid argument

You said he does not support the European Tour, as he has only played 8 times in 3 years there (although others have disputed your figures, and a quick google from myself seems to show your figures don't make sense). Your comment that he only plays when it is convenient to him, I'm guessing, wasn't meant as a positive comment towards Poulter?

Yes I don’t believe Poulter supports the European Tour as he suggests he does - he supports himself - his choice to do that but certainly he shouldnt be making out its for the love of the tour etc - at least be honest with himself - he wants to play in Scotland for his own benefit

You used it to try and back up your argument he does not support the ET. However, does he have to play any ET events at all?

if he wants to play in the Ryder Cup and keep European Tour membership then yes he does have to play in a specific amount of events ?‍

There are plenty of other players on the PGA Tour who do not play as many ET events as Poulter, and I'm sure Poulter could potentially have a more comfortable schedule by playing less ET events (especially in recent years). However, he still appears to ensure that he commits enough ET events on his own schedule. It is not an either/or situation. A player can make an effort to support a Tour, whilst still picking and choosing events that best fit their schedule.

The discussion on here about players not supporting the ET enough has been done plenty of times and that included the likes of Rory etc - they do pick their schedule to what suits them best as opposed to what suits the Tour best - I don’t think anyone has suggested anything different

 

[Swango1980]

I’m confused when it was decided what was a silly argument or not

And also have seen the notion about wanting to play less but then also wanting to play more been banded around by a number of people on social media - I think it’s a valid argument

I expressed my opinion that it was a silly argument. Until you can argue that Poulter is trying to play MORE golf than he played BEFORE he joined LIV, then your statement is absolutely without foundation. And, you will need to wait until some time has passed before you can then compare how much golf he plays before and after LIV. Simply wanting to play a few events outside the LIV tour does not automatically mean the player wants to play more golf.

If you can't see that, then it is pointless having any debate with you I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I also agree with the principal of free to air, but Liv is a bait and switch. There are only two possible future revenue models

1. Advertising.
2. Subscription.

I can see a future where a Liv App exists as a subscription service. It is the same problem that other broadcasters are dealing with at the moment in fighting for audience share.

YouTube is moving to a combination of Advertising AND Subscription. So I'd say to those enjoying "free golf" to enjoy this period while it lasts, if you can.

I have no doubt that it won’t stay free for long - nothing ever does really, it will be loaded up with advertising or on an app or with someone like DAZN etc - I know they have huge buckets of money but to work at a loss each year would be crazy

“iF” - it continues and becomes a regular tour then it would be behind a firewall rather quickly

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I expressed my opinion that it was a silly argument. Until you can argue that Poulter is trying to play MORE golf than he played BEFORE he joined LIV, then your statement is absolutely without foundation. And, you will need to wait until some time has passed before you can then compare how much golf he plays before and after LIV. Simply wanting to play a few events outside the LIV tour does not automatically mean the player wants to play more golf.

If you can't see that, then it is pointless having any debate with you I suppose.

I just expressed my opinion ?‍ That’s how a debate goes eh - I guess I could call yours silly etc etc but then it’s going downhill then and thankfully the thread hasn’t gone that way

The talk was about the players playing “LESS golf” - not playing week after week , bigger gaps inbetween events etc , less travel away from family etc etc

Yet here is Poulter wanting to play again the week after Portland and talking about supporting the tour etc - so that imo is him not being entirely honest and prob using it as practice for The Open but again that’s just my opinion - I could be wrong or I could be right ?‍ That’s just the way it is

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Well it’s free for a start lol.

Only because Sky didn’t want it. As soon as they can get a broadcaster on board it will go behind a paywall.

 

[SyR]

Well it’s free for a start lol.

And no adverts for the moment too.