Lift and Place all year round.

Glyn Mitchell

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I have just started a petition regarding the lift and place rule in golf. I would like to change the rules to allow golfers who hit good shots not to be penalised by rub of the green. I am fed up of hitting a ball down the middle of the fairway only to find it in a divot or covered in mud and there is nothing I can do about it. Other sports are trying to remove bad luck from their sport , so why not golf. My petition is on Change. org . https://chng.it/q77xY7SMGH. Please sign up if you think it's a .good idea. Await any constructive comments.
 

IanMcC

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How do you define a divot?
The R&A cant, and the USGA cant.
My divot might be your scuffed tuft of grass.

If it was definable then there would have been a rule change years ago.
It isnt, so I wont be signing.
 

Alan Clifford

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I have just started a petition regarding the lift and place rule in golf. I would like to change the rules to allow golfers who hit good shots not to be penalised by rub of the green. I am fed up of hitting a ball down the middle of the fairway only to find it in a divot or covered in mud and there is nothing I can do about it. Other sports are trying to remove bad luck from their sport , so why not golf. My petition is on Change. org . https://chng.it/q77xY7SMGH. Please sign up if you think it's a .good idea. Await any constructive comments.
South Africa seem to be trying to do the opposite.
 

Glyn Mitchell

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I understand your point but I think you are missing mine. Lift and place is allowed in the winter and with the current climate when does winter start or finish? All I am trying to do is take an element of bad luck out of the game. Very sorry you will not be signing my petition.
 

Colin L

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Preferred lies can be temporarily introduced at any time of the year if the conditions warrant it. I recollect refereeing at a national tournament where preferred lies were in place for one day following torrential rain the previous one. A Committee can also use Lift Clean and Replace which deals with mud on your ball. That just leaves divot holes which are another matter altogether but I'm afraid your petition is doomed to failure on that one.
 

Whereditgo

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How do you define a divot?
The R&A cant, and the USGA cant.
My divot might be your scuffed tuft of grass.

If it was definable then there would have been a rule change years ago.
It isnt, so I wont be signing.
I guess if there is lift and place then identifying a divot is irrelevant?

For me one of the fundamentals of golf is the play the ball as you find it, accepting that there are already rules in place to deal with certain occurrences where you then don't, but none the less, I wouldn't like to see preferred lies all year round, what next? Tee it up on the fairway?
 

Glyn Mitchell

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Preferred lies can be temporarily introduced at any time of the year if the conditions warrant it. I recollect refereeing at a national tournament where preferred lies were in place for one day following torrential rain the previous one. A Committee can also use Lift Clean and Replace which deals with mud on your ball. That just leaves divot holes which are another matter altogether but I'm afraid your petition is doomed to failure on that one.
Thank you for your comments but once again you are missing the point. I am not talking about a National Tournament or a Professional one. I am about Joe Public. They will tell you that getting a committee to do something like this is like asking the sun not to rise in the morning. Like you I would love the Committee of my golf course and many others to make a common sense decision but I won't hold my breath.
 

Glyn Mitchell

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I guess if there is lift and place then identifying a divot is irrelevant?

For me one of the fundamentals of golf is the play the ball as you find it, accepting that there are already rules in place to deal with certain occurrences where you then don't, but none the less, I wouldn't like to see preferred lies all year round, what next? Tee it up on the fairway?
One of the fundamentals of Football and Rugby was the Referees decision was final, the Lines Person in Tennis, the Umpires in Cricket. Need I go on. Accepting rules is not a Fundamental in life either. Just look at History.
 

Glyn Mitchell

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Why not have a rule allowing you to tee the ball up on fairways?
That's really rewarding good shots, none of this half-assed clean and place stuff.
Believe it or not I have played at a course that did allow you to tee it up on the fairway under certain conditions. No half-assed clean and place for them.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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I understand your point but I think you are missing mine. Lift and place is allowed in the winter and with the current climate when does winter start or finish? All I am trying to do is take an element of bad luck out of the game. Very sorry you will not be signing my petition.
Who ever said that there shouldn’t be luck, good and bad, in the game of golf. We play our game on and over a natural landscape with the grace of the weather gods - and we simply accept that nature and what goes with it can be random.

The times that I find my ball in a divot hole are few and far between. The times I find it in one that significantly impacts the shot I have to play are maybe one a year…if that. The debates and dissatisfactions that would arise if we could take relief as OP suggest would be IMO detrimental to the game and the spirit in which we play it. We accept the rough with the smooth…that’s the name of the game.
 

Imurg

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It's more than possible to hit a good shot but have a bad result
It's also more than possible to hit a poor shot and have a great result.
Rub of the Green - part and parcel of the best game in the world

I can probably count on the thumbs of one hand how many times I've finished in a divot this year.
 

doublebogey7

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Been there, done that so I know what I talking about. Please just give a thought. I am just trying to level the playing field like other sports are trying to do.
If you are trying to take luck out of the game, then I am sure you'll also be petitioning to change the rules so that when I ball flys into the woods and bounces out, the player must throw the ball back into the tree's.
Can you also please explain your assertion that other sports are taking luck out of their sports.
 

Glyn Mitchell

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Who ever said that there shouldn’t be luck, good and bad, in the game of golf. We play our game on and over a natural landscape with the grace of the weather gods - and we simply accept that nature and what goes with it can be random.

The times that I find my ball in a divot hole are few and far between. The times I find it in one that significantly impacts the shot I have to play are maybe one a year…if that. The debates and dissatisfactions that would arise if we could take relief as OP suggest would be IMO detrimental to the game and the spirit in which we play it. We accept the rough with the smooth…that’s the name of the game.
Maybe you should send your luck of the draw to all the other sports that have changed with the times. Maybe asking an England Supporter whether Maradona's Hand of God goal to be ruled out. Telling him it would be detrimental to the sport to use video evidence to change the outcome and tell him that Maradona was playing to the spirit of the game. This is just trying to make the game fairer for everyone including you.
 

Neilds

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I have played throughout the year, maybe 30-40 rounds and not yet landed in what I would consider to be a divot. You must have real bad luck to be constantly landing in them - that said, I won’t be signing as I think it is a stupid idea
 
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