Winter Rules All Year?

[Shooter McPowick]

Got to admit I find our course easier in the winter. Some holes are shorter but thats almost negated by no run on the ball. Half decent ball striking and knowing carry distances means hit the green and it sticks. In the summer hitting and holding the greens becomes a tough challenge even for low handicappers. Then there’s the putting, in the winter yes they’re not perfect surfaces but you can have a run at the hole whereas in the summer our course becomes 3 put territory.

Couldn’t agree more, our greens are like glass at the peak of summer - can putt off the side if not careful

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on back of this. I thought I knew the rule but in a match today my opponent pointed out a breach - and so I am now not sure.

It's dead simple. Playing Winter Rules LR Lift, Clean and Place I was certain that as I was not required under the Winter Rule to replace my ball in the identical place from where I lifted it, I need not mark the position of my ball before lifting it. Best practice to do so, but not mandatory. My opponent was quite clear (in a nice observational way) that I breached the rule as at one point I lifted without marking, even though I replaced within 6" as per our LR. I did not argue with him even though I am sure I was right, but he sounded so certain that I now doubt myself.

Who is right?

 

[Orikoru]

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on back of this. I thought I knew the rule but in a match today my opponent pointed out a breach - and so I am now not sure.

It's dead simple. Playing Winter Rules LR Lift, Clean and Place I was certain that as I was not required under the Winter Rule to replace my ball in the identical place from where I lifted it, I need not mark the position of my ball before lifting it. Best practice to do so, but not mandatory. My opponent was quite clear (in a nice observational way) that I breached the rule as at one point I lifted without marking, even though I replaced within 6" as per our LR. I did not argue with him even though I am sure I was right, but he sounded so certain that I now doubt myself.

Who is right?

I thought the same as you. Changed a while ago to say you don't have to physically mark it - as long as you're sure you've replaced it within six inches and not nearer the hole of course.

 

[Slab]

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on back of this. I thought I knew the rule but in a match today my opponent pointed out a breach - and so I am now not sure.

It's dead simple. Playing Winter Rules LR Lift, Clean and Place I was certain that as I was not required under the Winter Rule to replace my ball in the identical place from where I lifted it, I need not mark the position of my ball before lifting it. Best practice to do so, but not mandatory. My opponent was quite clear (in a nice observational way) that I breached the rule as at one point I lifted without marking, even though I replaced within 6" as per our LR. I did not argue with him even though I am sure I was right, but he sounded so certain that I now doubt myself.

Who is right?

pretty sure you were, can't recall rule number though

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I thought the same as you. Changed a while ago to say you don't have to physically mark it - as long as you're sure you've replaced it within six inches and not nearer the hole of course.

That's what I thought. A 2019 change?

 

[Orikoru]

That's what I thought. A 2019 change?

Yeah that's what I was thinking.

 

[Slab]

That's what I thought. A 2019 change?

https://www.golfmonthly.com/videos/rules/golfs-winter-rules

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on back of this. I thought I knew the rule but in a match today my opponent pointed out a breach - and so I am now not sure.

It's dead simple. Playing Winter Rules LR Lift, Clean and Place I was certain that as I was not required under the Winter Rule to replace my ball in the identical place from where I lifted it, I need not mark the position of my ball before lifting it. Best practice to do so, but not mandatory. My opponent was quite clear (in a nice observational way) that I breached the rule as at one point I lifted without marking, even though I replaced within 6" as per our LR. I did not argue with him even though I am sure I was right, but he sounded so certain that I now doubt myself.

Who is right?

The response should always be the same

Ask him to confirm the rule he believes that you have breached and to confirm the local rule

https://www.englandgolf.org/preferred-lies

 

[IanMcC]

I dont believe you had to mark it.

14.1a
Spot of Ball to Be Lifted and Replaced Must Be Marked
Before lifting a ball under a Rule requiring the ball to be replaced on its original spot, the player must mark the spot which means to:

• Place a ball-marker right behind or right next to the ball, or
• Hold a club on the ground right behind or right next to the ball.

If the spot is marked with a ball-marker, after replacing the ball the player must remove the ball-marker before making a stroke.If the player lifts the ball without marking its spot, marks its spot in a wrong way or makes a stroke with a ball-marker left in place, the player gets one penalty stroke. When a ball is lifted to take relief under a Rule, the player is not required to mark the spot before lifting the ball.

You are lifting it under Model Local Rule E3 probably, so no penalty.

 

[Mandofred]

I tend to just use the toe of my shoe....unless it's in a comp, then a tee. I usually stop the trolley fairly close to the ball....put my toe up to the ball and pick it up and clean it off then put it back. It's not "best practice" evidently, but within the rules from what I have read. Couldn't quote exactly where though.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thanks all. As I thought.

And as it happens, it didn’t make any difference as he chose to ignore my ‘breach’ as it was matchplay. If it was strokeplay he would have had to insist on the penalty for my ‘breach’ then I would have been on my phone checking the rules.

 

[jim8flog]

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on back of this. I thought I knew the rule but in a match today my opponent pointed out a breach - and so I am now not sure.

It's dead simple. Playing Winter Rules LR Lift, Clean and Place I was certain that as I was not required under the Winter Rule to replace my ball in the identical place from where I lifted it, I need not mark the position of my ball before lifting it. Best practice to do so, but not mandatory. My opponent was quite clear (in a nice observational way) that I breached the rule as at one point I lifted without marking, even though I replaced within 6" as per our LR. I did not argue with him even though I am sure I was right, but he sounded so certain that I now doubt myself.

Who is right?

I bet there are quite a few courses that have not changed their local rule since the change in 2019.

 

[rulefan]

I dont believe you had to mark it.

14.1a
Spot of Ball to Be Lifted and Replaced Must Be Marked
Before lifting a ball under a Rule requiring the ball to be replaced on its original spot, the player must mark the spot which means to:

• Place a ball-marker right behind or right next to the ball, or
• Hold a club on the ground right behind or right next to the ball.

If the spot is marked with a ball-marker, after replacing the ball the player must remove the ball-marker before making a stroke.If the player lifts the ball without marking its spot, marks its spot in a wrong way or makes a stroke with a ball-marker left in place, the player gets one penalty stroke. When a ball is lifted to take relief under a Rule, the player is not required to mark the spot before lifting the ball.

You are lifting it under Model Local Rule E3 probably, so no penalty.

Preferred Lies is not the Rule you have quoted.
The clue is in the word 'preferred' ie where you would prefer it to be rather than where it is.

 

[rulefan]

It's dead simple. Playing Winter Rules LR Lift, Clean and Place I was certain that as I was not required under the Winter Rule to replace my ball in the identical place from where I lifted it, I need not mark the position of my ball before lifting it.
Who is right?

The Preferred Lie Local Rule does not require the ball to be replaced.
As I said above, The clue is in the word 'preferred' ie where you would prefer it to be rather than where it is.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The Preferred Lie Local Rule does not require the ball to be replaced.
As I said above, The clue is in the word 'preferred' ie where you would prefer it to be rather than where it is.

Indeed, you confirm my understanding - that I was correct that i did not need not to mark my ball position as I was not replacing the ball to its original position - I was taking relief from it

 

[Crazyface]

We must be one of the very few clubs that have one club length pick and place permanently, ( which has been sanctioned)

Although this is a benefit I find our course really tough as we have very little run and play in poor weather most of the year.

If I played at my brothers ( Golfmmad) course for a season I’m sure I would get my h/c down by about 2/3 shots.

Pick and place all year? Do you play on a swamp!!!!!?

 

[rulefan]

We must be one of the very few clubs that have one club length pick and place permanently, ( which has been sanctioned)

One club length sanctioned - by whom? National or County Union/Association? On what grounds?

 

[IJames]

Winter Golf, where PC&P ad other Winter rules apply, is purely social golf imo.

 

[Rlburnside]

Pick and place all year? Do you play on a swamp!!!!!?

I played yesterday after a night of heavy rain and at times it did feel you was playing on a swamp

It’s not about how wet our course gets it’s more about the terrain, around 1975 about 10 local men set out to build a golf course I think it started with 6 holes and gradually built up to 18.

The course is basically built on a peat hill so no nice lush fairways for us, after a few years of hard work our course was rated and at that time we were allowed 2 club length pick and place all year, again after a lot of hard work a few years later this was reduced to one club length which it still is today.

Answering Rulefans questions I don’t know the answer but I was told there were men that came up and officially rated the course and I think when our SSS was changed the course was rated again.

 

[Rlburnside]

One club length sanctioned - by whom? National or County Union/Association? On what grounds?

See my reply to Crazyface, the hope is that we could get our course to such a standard that we could do away with one club length pick and place.