garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Yet this guys 100 dollar day gets mentioned in every single post.
Kuch 3rd time around!
- Thread starter Jacko_G
- Start date
Shooter McPowick
Head Pro
It was all agreed up front according to Kuch who gave him more than what was agreed. Like I said before, greed!
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Whether he agreed 5k or 15k before a single ball was hit, once Kuchar had won $1M+ he should have paid the man a bit more IMO - I would have.
Pure greed.
Pure greed.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Yup, his comments on it appear to back up that here was a guy who hadn't won in decades
sorting a deal with a local caddy with no real expectation of winning:“I kind of think someone got in his ear,†Kuchar said. “I was very clear and very upfront on Tuesday [of the tournament week]. And he said, ‘OK.’ He had the ability, with bonuses, to make up to $4,000.â€
Kuchar said he told Ortiz he would pay him $1,000 if he missed the cut, $2,000 if he made the cut, $3,000 if he had a top-20 and $4,000 if he had a top-10. “The extra $1,000 was, ‘Thank you — it was a great week.’ Those were the terms. He was in agreement with those terms. That’s where I struggle. I don’t know what happened. Someone must have said, ‘You need much more.’â€
Bottom line for me is it seems Kuchar stuck to the deal with a 20% thank you tip (many would have given the guy a bit more of a 'tip' in light of winning the thing but that's very much a personal thing)
His agent/manager wanted Kuchar to up it after it became a story with the extra 15K being offered and rejected
His mates on tour are giving him some banter/stick but he says he would have too in their place
<story ends>
Shooter McPowick
Head Pro
Not sure we are on the same page...
I meant the caddy was greedy. He doesn’t speak English, he’s a club caddy that was as good as an electric trolley with GPS. After the media caught wind of it Kuch offered another $15k and the caddy turned it down hoping for more. Later when interviewed he said he was hoping for $50k. Assuming those are the actual circumstances, I’d have done the same.
Wolf
Well-known member
Yup, his comments on it appear to back up that here was a guy who hadn't won in decades
“I kind of think someone got in his ear,†Kuchar said. “I was very clear and very upfront on Tuesday [of the tournament week]. And he said, ‘OK.’ He had the ability, with bonuses, to make up to $4,000.â€
Kuchar said he told Ortiz he would pay him $1,000 if he missed the cut, $2,000 if he made the cut, $3,000 if he had a top-20 and $4,000 if he had a top-10. “The extra $1,000 was, ‘Thank you — it was a great week.’ Those were the terms. He was in agreement with those terms. That’s where I struggle. I don’t know what happened. Someone must have said, ‘You need much more.’â€
Bottom line for me is it seems Kuchar stuck to the deal with a 20% thank you tip (many would have given the guy a bit more of a 'tip' in light of winning the thing but that's very much a personal thing)
His agent/manager wanted Kuchar to up it after it became a story with the extra 15K being offered and rejected
His mates on tour are giving him some banter/stick but he says he would have too in their place
<story ends>
Agreed..
That sounds good enough to me from Kuch, he offered a sliding scale the Caddy agreed and he bunged another grand on top which he accepted happily. Now he turns down 15k because he wants 50k
Caddy is getting greedy especially after being paid extra on top of whe he agreed with the player.
I think though he's getting banter from other players many will support his stance.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
My random irritation in this thread is how people think about his career winnings
There’s no doubt that this guy is loaded and a multi-millionaire but to bandy about a career earnings figure like it can be used as a comparison to what he offered is pointless (just add up your own career earnings before you paid anything out versus your current bank balance and see what I mean)
You get that he has to pay tax, prob 20% or more & he has an agent/manager that’s also on a 20% cut (pretty std rate) That’s tens of millions gone right there (I know that the actual sum isn’t that simple but the principal is) even before we look at other expenses etc. Yup he’s loaded but don’t compare a 46 mil career to $5k for a weeks work
But if you really want to compare a career to a week then Kuchar's been pro for what just shy of 20 years or 1000 weeks?
46mil divided by 1000 weeks means his average earnings are 46,000 a week (less 20% tax & 20% agent) so its roughly 27k a week for his career…. Oh wait didn’t the caddy refuse 20k for a week of his career to just assist the player who only averages 27k a week in his career!
Yeah I know you can make numbers show anything but its still fun
And what about his sponsorship deals, appearance fees, etc etc???
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Yup he'll have got wheelbarrow loads from them too (less 20% less 20%) but that's not part of the 46 mil folks were bringing up in the thread
mhwgc
Assistant Pro
Can see both sides of the argument here, Kuch makes a deal which the caddy accepts and that's what happened.
It comes out in the press and Kuch wins and he's a long way short of the 10% a regular caddy would get.
It comes out in the press and Kuch wins and he's a long way short of the 10% a regular caddy would get.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
If you imagine the reverse of this story, Kuch wins the comp and then gives the caddy a $100k bonus or something - everyone would be saying how amazingly generous he is, what a great guy, etc. Because he only offered $20k he's tight and an a-hole. It's always one extreme or the other in the media.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Absolutely but positive PR is far better than negative PR.
5k was agreed, then a subsequent amount to be determined depending where Kucher finished.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
That's not Kuchars version of events though so is one of them fibbing
No doubt, the whole thing is a mess in my opinion.
Kuchars reputation has taken a bit of a dent, whether he’s bothered or not.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
He's probably lucky that Sergio made a tit of himself and deflected a lot of flak away from him.
rksquire
Head Pro
I have all sorts of issues with this.
Kuch's relative wealth really has nothing to do with it, it's entirely up to him how he spends this - he could change someones life with a gift or he could (as he is) be associated with charities. I've about 9 Apple products in my household, Apple are a rich company, surely they don't need to charge me next time I change one, but pretty sure they will and I'm okay with that because that's what I'm agreeing to when I decide to accept the product.
Is there a moral obligation for Kuchar? At the start of the tournament, his wealth is estimated at $46m. Had he missed the cut, and paid the caddy the agreed rate, would we still be having the same moral discussions? At the end of the tournament, he's still worth $46m, he wins it, and he pays the caddy the agreed rate with tip. Now we're thinking he's immoral? Not buying it, from my point of view (at best) Kuchars tightness has remained the same and consistent; the caddys greed however has changed. Maybe my moral radar is all over the place, but imagine Kuch's normal caddy was there, and got paid the pre-agreed basic rate + percentage bonus, would we then be questioning his morals because he didn't add more to the agreed rate?
Also, would $50k have changed the caddys life? He earns between £$1k and $2k a week, that's not exactly a small amount of money. Also, if he is now that confident that his caddying skills (with a win under his belt) are worth 1/2 that of a regular tour caddy, why doesn't he offer up his services to be a tour caddy?
Kuch's relative wealth really has nothing to do with it, it's entirely up to him how he spends this - he could change someones life with a gift or he could (as he is) be associated with charities. I've about 9 Apple products in my household, Apple are a rich company, surely they don't need to charge me next time I change one, but pretty sure they will and I'm okay with that because that's what I'm agreeing to when I decide to accept the product.
Is there a moral obligation for Kuchar? At the start of the tournament, his wealth is estimated at $46m. Had he missed the cut, and paid the caddy the agreed rate, would we still be having the same moral discussions? At the end of the tournament, he's still worth $46m, he wins it, and he pays the caddy the agreed rate with tip. Now we're thinking he's immoral? Not buying it, from my point of view (at best) Kuchars tightness has remained the same and consistent; the caddys greed however has changed. Maybe my moral radar is all over the place, but imagine Kuch's normal caddy was there, and got paid the pre-agreed basic rate + percentage bonus, would we then be questioning his morals because he didn't add more to the agreed rate?
Also, would $50k have changed the caddys life? He earns between £$1k and $2k a week, that's not exactly a small amount of money. Also, if he is now that confident that his caddying skills (with a win under his belt) are worth 1/2 that of a regular tour caddy, why doesn't he offer up his services to be a tour caddy?
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
I think you are missing one key point and that is the local knowledge of the course that the caddie brought to the party. Personally I reckon that knowledge would have saved Kuchar at least 1 shot over the 4 rounds which was the winning margin. I don't know the prize fund breakdown but the difference between 1st and 2nd would be at least a couple of hundred thousand dollars so I think Kuch has done very well out of the local caddie.
rksquire
Head Pro
Can't disagree with the local knowledge for that one single course... but can't see that entitles him to that status of a tour caddy payment who has to try to gain in depth knowledge of lots of courses and may not get the benefit of a win. Also, there is a possible argument (and it as unknown as the caddy being worth 1 shot) that with his regular caddy on the bag he may actually have won the tournament by more than one shot.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Kuch has spoken. Feels he's done nothing wrong.
https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/matt-kuchar-defends-caddie-payment-i-dont-lose-sleep-over-this
https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/matt-kuchar-defends-caddie-payment-i-dont-lose-sleep-over-this
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Spot on really. He's said exactly what those of us defending him said. They made a deal, he paid him more than the deal, then later offered him even more than the deal which was declined. I think he's been perfectly fair.
"this seems to be a social media issue more than anything. I think it shouldn’t be, knowing that there was a complete, agreed-upon deal that not only did I meet but exceeded."
Precisely.
