Inflation of Greens Fees for the Top UK Courses

[Hobbit]

Eye watering prices but I wonder what it costs to produce a course and clubhouse to the level many of those venues put forward. Many of those courses have visitors 5-6-7 days a week, and on each day the courses are in amazing condition. If they weren't in excellent condition, social media would be awash with negative reviews.

How many extra staff does a top course need to maintain the fairways, rough, (extra)bunkers, greens and tees to the level they do on a daily basis? What does a premium clubhouse cost to run? How many house staff are employed at a top course? 10 staff on minimum wage, across greens and house comes in at £800 a day. What does a Head Greenkeeper, chef, head Pro, club manager and admin staff cost? £200k?

How many members do those clubs have, bearing in mind those members are probably paying an eye watering level of subs and expect good access? Would you pay £5k to be a member of a club with 700 members and which has a large number of visitors every week? Can you imagine being balloted out of playing because it has lots of members and visitors, and you've paid £5k for the privilege?

If a major refurb was required in the lounge/bar etc, it won't be cheap. Buying 1 top restaurant standard dining chair will cost way more than £50. 100 dining chairs at £150 each = £15,000. 25x tables at £300 = £7500. Than add in a carpet at around £50/sq.m. And you have 7 greens machines/tractors on a rolling replacement programme, replacing 1 a year. Rolling bunker refurbs... the list goes on.

Lots of questions to be considered before we can honestly say every top course is overpriced.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If a major refurb was required in the lounge/bar etc, it won't be cheap. Buying 1 top restaurant standard dining chair will cost way more than £50. 100 dining chairs at £150 each = £15,000. 25x tables at £300 = £7500. Than add in a carpet at around £50/sq.m.

Spot on Brian. We are currently undertaking a clubhouse refurb, £90k allocated over 3 years for furniture, carpets, soft furnishings etc.

 

[Boomy]

We had a trip to Turnberry in 2006. A round on the Kintyre on the Friday, overnight stay in the Turnberry 5 star hotel, bed and breakfast then a round on the Ailsa on the Saturday morning and if my memory serves me correctly we paid c£170. It was my birthday on the Saturday when we played the Ailsa and the lads organised an official from the club to announce me on the 1st tee, they presented me with a goody bag as well, fab experience. It would appear a similar trip would now cost £599 ?

 

[redbrownie]

We had a trip to Turnberry in 2006. A round on the Kintyre on the Friday, overnight stay in the Turnberry 5 star hotel, bed and breakfast then a round on the Ailsa on the Saturday morning and if my memory serves me correctly we paid c£170. It was my birthday on the Saturday when we played the Ailsa and the lads organised an official from the club to announce me on the 1st tee, they presented me with a goody bag as well, fab experience. It would appear a similar trip would now cost £599 ?

That's just extortion. You hear people talk about how golf is inaccessible and stuff like this doesn't do much to counter that argument.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

We had a trip to Turnberry in 2006. A round on the Kintyre on the Friday, overnight stay in the Turnberry 5 star hotel, bed and breakfast then a round on the Ailsa on the Saturday morning and if my memory serves me correctly we paid c£170. It was my birthday on the Saturday when we played the Ailsa and the lads organised an official from the club to announce me on the 1st tee, they presented me with a goody bag as well, fab experience. It would appear a similar trip would now cost £599 ?

What month did you go?

We had a forum trip there a couple of years ago in March.

Played the Alisa and the Robert the Bruce course stayed over with breakfast for £199

Quality trip that was.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We had a trip to Turnberry in 2006. A round on the Kintyre on the Friday, overnight stay in the Turnberry 5 star hotel, bed and breakfast then a round on the Ailsa on the Saturday morning and if my memory serves me correctly we paid c£170. It was my birthday on the Saturday when we played the Ailsa and the lads organised an official from the club to announce me on the 1st tee, they presented me with a goody bag as well, fab experience. It would appear a similar trip would now cost £599 ?

It depends on the time of year. I did a 1 night, 2 round stay at Turnberry in April 2018 and it cost around £250. If you go from june through to the end of September the rate for all of those prestige courses jump alarmingly. I also suspect the hotel has had a hefty refit since you were there and that has to be paid for. The hotel is genuinely 5 star in quality (forget the official star rating which can give average hotels 5 stars)

Saying that, £599 for 1 night, 2 rounds is a scary sum. Rich mans stuff.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That's just extortion. You hear people talk about how golf is inaccessible and stuff like this doesn't do much to counter that argument.

Perhaps we need to look at it in a different way. If you stayed in an elite hotel in London, Paris, Tokyo, New York etc what would you pay per night? It can be thousands of pounds. We accept that we can't stay there, they are for a rich elite. Perhaps summer golf at these venues just has to be viewed in the same way. At least we can play them at a more affordable level off peak. I'm not sure The Ritz or George V in Paris ever has off peak ?

 

[redbrownie]

Perhaps we need to look at it in a different way. If you stayed in an elite hotel in London, Paris, Tokyo, New York etc what would you pay per night? It can be thousands of pounds. We accept that we can't stay there, they are for a rich elite. Perhaps summer golf at these venues just has to be viewed in the same way. At least we can play them at a more affordable level off peak. I'm not sure The Ritz or George V in Paris ever has off peak ?

I'm mainly referring to just the golf to be honest, looking at the original post in this thread. The hotel part of it doesn't really bother me too much; you expect 5 star luxurious hotels to be extortionate as you say.

 

[Boomy]

That trip was in the November, it was actually 2005 not 2006. The weather was unusually good for that time of year so we got to play off the fairways as well which was superb.

The hotel really was due a refurbishment when we stayed there so it’s good to hear it has had it, and like you say I’d bet it is a proper, superb 5 star experience. None the less in 2005 it was fab to sit having breakfast overlooking the Ailsa ahead of playing it ?

It was a fab trip, I’d love to do it again some time.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm mainly referring to just the golf to be honest, looking at the original post in this thread. The hotel part of it doesn't really bother me too much; you expect 5 star luxurious hotels to be extortionate as you say.

I get your point, I'm suggesting looking at those golf courses in the same way as expensive hotels. I'd love to play them all, I'd like to stay in luxury, but sometimes you just have to accept that money takes over and those with big wallets win out.

 

[Boomy]

What month did you go?

We had a forum trip there a couple of years ago in March.

Played the Alisa and the Robert the Bruce course stayed over with breakfast for £199

Quality trip that was.

That’s a fab price - just a couple of years ago as well? Was that due to booking a big group?

 

[redbrownie]

I get your point, I'm suggesting looking at those golf courses in the same way as expensive hotels. I'd love to play them all, I'd like to stay in luxury, but sometimes you just have to accept that money takes over and those with big wallets win out.

Well in general, i'd much rather live in a world where inclusivity is at the core to be honest. We're talking about a round of golf here, not a trip to the moon.

It used to be expensive but affordable to play these courses, now it's just not affordable. I don't see how that's a good thing for the game.

 

[Duckster]

Really? Can you tell us how? I'd be really intersted in this.

Live there.
St Andrews links is (by parliament decree I think) owned by the people of St Andrews. So if you live there you are guaranteed to be able to get a links ticket dirt cheap.

https://www.standrews.com/links-ticketholder

 

[redbrownie]

Yeah when I played the Old Course in August I had a caddy who was a local lad and he explained how it worked for them. I think that's a really good scheme to be honest. I'd like them to do something similar for UK residents (not to the same level) so that the expensive rounds are paid for by tourists, that would make most sense to me.

 

[IanM]

Late 90s the Prince of Wales Hotel in Southport had a refurb and keen to drum up business. I got 2 nights dinner, bed and breakfast and 36 holes at Birkdale, Hillside and Hesketh..... all in £180!! ( a party of 16)

What would that be now?? Dread to think. I'm pretty sure they'd cocked up as the green fees were about that on their own.

As a foot note, while I was there I negotiated a return the following year . They agreed but I had to pay £200 and for that, we played S&A, Hoylake and Lytham!!!

We we returned, they tried to say no dinners were included!! But I had it in writing. Wish I could remember how much the price for year 3 was, suffice to say we didn't take it!

Happy days...

 

[Hobbit]

Well in general, i'd much rather live in a world where inclusivity is at the core to be honest. We're talking about a round of golf here, not a trip to the moon.

It used to be expensive but affordable to play these courses, now it's just not affordable. I don't see how that's a good thing for the game.

Mmm, a really interesting point. I can't make my mind up on where I stand with this one. On the one hand I'd like to see the top amateurs have the opportunity to test themselves on the top courses - they probably can via some of the top amateur competitions. On the other hand I can't afford a Bentley or Aston Martin but I don't feel excluded.

Good point, though. How to grow the game... Mmm, thought provoking. Maybe 'x' many green fees are assigned to the Golf Unions for distribution...

 

[SammmeBee]

Don’t most of the better courses offer the Unions tee times for matches and their county competitions.....??

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Well in general, i'd much rather live in a world where inclusivity is at the core to be honest. We're talking about a round of golf here, not a trip to the moon.

It used to be expensive but affordable to play these courses, now it's just not affordable. I don't see how that's a good thing for the game.

Part of me agrees but it isn't as though we don't have alternatives. We have thousands of courses to choose from in the UK and the fact that 10-20 are premium doesn't prevent us from playing the others. If all courses were that expensive then the game would be in real trouble but it really is a very small minority.

It's an interesting talking point ?

 

[patricks148]

That trip was in the November, it was actually 2005 not 2006. The weather was unusually good for that time of year so we got to play off the fairways as well which was superb.

The hotel really was due a refurbishment when we stayed there so it’s good to hear it has had it, and like you say I’d bet it is a proper, superb 5 star experience. None the less in 2005 it was fab to sit having breakfast overlooking the Ailsa ahead of playing it ?

It was a fab trip, I’d love to do it again some time.

i thinks its been gutted and done up twice since then, was done for the last open there and then when Trump bought it

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Well in general, i'd much rather live in a world where inclusivity is at the core to be honest. We're talking about a round of golf here, not a trip to the moon.

It used to be expensive but affordable to play these courses, now it's just not affordable. I don't see how that's a good thing for the game.

It's all relative.

Green fees at the top courses never have been affordable to all, it's just that you considered them affordable to you. You no longer do.

Others still consider them in their range.