Inflation of Greens Fees for the Top UK Courses

[Liverbirdie]

On the course, whilst playing??
Where's that?

In the clubhouse.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Lots of back and forth here about reduced fees vs member clubs rights to charge what they want. Fair enough on both. So:

The R&A are deciding which course gets the next Open Championship. The discussion could simply go: in order to benefit from the untold riches hosting the Open brings your club, we ask that you offer a reduced national rate, and GB&I rate, both a specific percentage of the full price green fee, for the next three years. Could be as few as two four balls per day.

Everyone wins...
the club from the income hosting The Open brings,
local visitors and GB&I golfers win - they get to take part in the 'heritage' of the competition, playing at a place they've probably watched their heroes play,
the R&A win - their already awesome 'product' further promotes accessibility into some of our greatest/most storied golf courses.

For those outside of the Open rota - the Kingsbarns of this world, charge what you like. And if ever you want to be on the rota, then the rules above apply.

What's not to like?

Beautifully put, sir.

 

[Liverbirdie]

True, but that change is primarily for the benefit of members and has no cost implications to them.

Is it always members that drive change from an altruistic POV, or do they sometimes react to outside social pressures?

 

[Liverbirdie]

Based upon the relative standings of golf here and in the USA using your argument a case could be made for subsidising the American visitors rather than the home players.

Troon, Sandwich, Muirfield et al . I really cannot see how I or any other British golfer is owed anything by them.

My god, I've said it about 5 times now - the exclusivity of these course have been mainly built up being on the open rota and green fees by British golfers for most of their existence.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Sorry, but again you make a point which is not valid.

If a private course decides to allow jeans, this is to meet the wishes of its members. It's not the result of some campaign by visiting golfers wanting to wear jeans.

I didnt say it was.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Lots of back and forth here about reduced fees vs member clubs rights to charge what they want. Fair enough on both. So:

The R&A are deciding which course gets the next Open Championship. The discussion could simply go: in order to benefit from the untold riches hosting the Open brings your club, we ask that you offer a reduced national rate, and GB&I rate, both a specific percentage of the full price green fee, for the next three years. Could be as few as two four balls per day.

Everyone wins...
the club from the income hosting The Open brings,
local visitors and GB&I golfers win - they get to take part in the 'heritage' of the competition, playing at a place they've probably watched their heroes play,
the R&A win - their already awesome 'product' further promotes accessibility into some of our greatest/most storied golf courses.

For those outside of the Open rota - the Kingsbarns of this world, charge what you like. And if ever you want to be on the rota, then the rules above apply.

What's not to like?

Might have to miss out on some then.

Acquaintances of mine have suggested that they would be delighted if their Club was to never again host the Open.

In their view and, apparently, a good many others the disruption to the Club and its members far outweighs any possible benefits.

In any event 10 of the 19 courses listed in the OP are not on the Open rota so those that are might feel a little victimised.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

My god, I've said it about 5 times now - the exclusivity of these course have been mainly built up being on the open rota and green fees by British golfers for most of their existence.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it is correct.

The American golf tourist is not a new phenomenon.

Also why should the current generation be rewarded for the actions of a relatively small number of their predecessors?

 

[Liverbirdie]

Just because you keep saying it doesn't mean it is correct.

The American golf tourist is not a new phenomenon.

Also why should the current generation be rewarded for the actions of a relatively small number of their predecessors?

I cant be arsed going round and round in circles any more unless anyone has something new to say.

Overall, if you are happy for it to potentially extend to the whole sporting / cultural / entertainment in this country where we are a playground for tourists and rich people only when it comes to access and tickets for the FA cup final, Lords, Wimbledon, West end theatres, Premiership football, pop concerts and great courses thats up to you. Its a whole cultural thing built up over many years that is getting less accessible to your average bloke, and a lot is down to currency exchange rates. I'm a bit more altruistic than that and doing think that money should trump everything. Sadly there are more and more people nowadays who do.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I cant be arsed going round and round in circles any more unless anyone has something new to say.

Overall, if you are happy for it to potentially extend to the whole sporting / cultural / entertainment in this country where we are a playground for tourists and rich people only when it comes to access and tickets for the FA cup final, Lords, Wimbledon, West end theatres, Premiership football, pop concerts and great courses thats up to you. Its a whole cultural thing built up over many years that is getting less accessible to your average bloke, and a lot is down to currency exchange rates. I'm a bit more altruistic than that and doing think that money should trump everything. Sadly there are more and more people nowadays who do.

Is there not a difference between the events you mention and golf for example

Yes it’s hard and expensive to get tickets to events like FA Cup , Wimbledon, Prem etc

it’s not the same with The Open for example - it’s not too and to get tickets

Also how much does it cost to play on Wembley , or Lords or Wimbledon or even play a match at Anfield? Can we the general public even do that ? Very much doubt it and if so it would be very expensive

Where as in golf we can access pretty much 99% of the courses - we can play every single Open venue old and new if we want too. The price for 5 hours of being in the same clubhouse and on the same course as some of the worlds greatest is well within the reach of all golfers - even if you don’t want to pay the summer fees there are winter fees for people if they want to play.

It’s up to the clubs to set what fee they want - if people weren’t willing to pay it then they would soon realise and drop the prices but these Open venues are courses for the whole golfing world and that’s who they target , not just mr smith living down the road. If a course wants to offer local rates then crack on but no course should be forced to provide any local rate - they are private businesses at the end of the day and they will fund themselves for the good of their club.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I cant be arsed going round and round in circles any more unless anyone has something new to say.

Overall, if you are happy for it to potentially extend to the whole sporting / cultural / entertainment in this country where we are a playground for tourists and rich people only when it comes to access and tickets for the FA cup final, Lords, Wimbledon, West end theatres, Premiership football, pop concerts and great courses thats up to you. Its a whole cultural thing built up over many years that is getting less accessible to your average bloke, and a lot is down to currency exchange rates. I'm a bit more altruistic than that and doing think that money should trump everything. Sadly there are more and more people nowadays who do.

It's just the way of the world.

I would love an Aston Martin but I can't afford one. But I am not asking AM to reduce the price to a level I can afford.

One other point, if fees were reduced to say your suggestion of £150, what then for those that can't stretch to that figure?

Who determines a "fair price"?

 

[Liverbirdie]

Is there not a difference between the events you mention and golf for example

Yes it’s hard and expensive to get tickets to events like FA Cup , Wimbledon, Prem etc

it’s not the same with The Open for example - it’s not too and to get tickets

Also how much does it cost to play on Wembley , or Lords or Wimbledon or even play a match at Anfield? Can we the general public even do that ? Very much doubt it and if so it would be very expensive

Where as in golf we can access pretty much 99% of the courses - we can play every single Open venue old and new if we want too. The price for 5 hours of being in the same clubhouse and on the same course as some of the worlds greatest is well within the reach of all golfers - even if you don’t want to pay the summer fees there are winter fees for people if they want to play.

It’s up to the clubs to set what fee they want - if people weren’t willing to pay it then they would soon realise and drop the prices but these Open venues are courses for the whole golfing world and that’s who they target , not just mr smith living down the road. If a course wants to offer local rates then crack on but no course should be forced to provide any local rate - they are private businesses at the end of the day and they will fund themselves for the good of their club.

6 paragraphs of opinions over the last 15 pages, nothing new to answer.

 

[Liverbirdie]

It's just the way of the world.

I would love an Aston Martin but I can't afford one. But I am not asking AM to reduce the price to alive I can afford.

One other point, if fees were reduced to say your suggestion of £150, what then for those that can't stretch to that figure?

Who determines a "fair pr"?

It was a random example.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

It was a random example.

I appreciate that but my questions remain.

Who would set the fee and what of those who still found themselves priced out?

We can see from this forum that there is a very wide range of affordability levels.

 

[KenL]

And in those instances they are there to make money. Luckily for them they all have a product which they can charge a massive premium for and we have no say in that.

I think Trump Aberdeen has made a huge loss every year it has been open.
I bet plenty others are not making money even before 2020.

 

[Zig]

Might have to miss out on some then.

Acquaintances of mine have suggested that they would be delighted if their Club was to never again host the Open.

In their view and, apparently, a good many others the disruption to the Club and its members far outweighs any possible benefits.

In any event 10 of the 19 courses listed in the OP are not on the Open rota so those that are might feel a little victimised.

Thanks for responding to my post. I get the feeling the thread has degenerated into a bit of a fight rather than pleasantly passing away a few minutes. I'll take your points one at a time in an effort to get things friendly and back on track.

Might have to miss out on some then. Exactly. You make a point later about not everyone being able to afford an Aston Martin. Everyone's idea of what's value for money/affordable is their choice (and the club's setting the green fee).

Acquaintances of mine have suggested that they would be delighted if their Club was to never again host the Open. In their view and, apparently, a good many others the disruption to the Club and its members far outweighs any possible benefits. I find this impossible to believe. Is there any evidence of clubs choosing 'not' to host the Open when offered? I get there may be one or two disgruntled members when the infrastructure has to go up, the work on the course in the year leading up to it etc. But it clearly doesn't outweigh the benefits, or the clubs wouldn't agree to host. Talk to anyone at Royal Portrush about the impact hosting the Open had there after the long period without.

In any event 10 of the 19 courses listed in the OP are not on the Open rota so those that are might feel a little victimised. Don't understand how they could feel 'victimised'. For what - the honour of hosting the Open? If you're 'gifted' the chance to host an Open, there are some strings attached, like the green fee idea I proposed. It'd be a small number of slots, for something like 3yrs.

I was simply trying to suggest a way Open courses could be more affordable, linked to them hosting the Open. The rest of the time, and for courses this doesn't apply to, can do what they're like. I'm very fortunate to have played the majority of courses on the list. I've paid green fees for each course I've played - I don't have a job or friends to get me on any of these for free. At some, I've paid the top price to play in the middle of summer (Royal Lytham for example). At others, I've tried to make it more affordable by taking advantage of their 'replay' or package offer (Kingsbarns, St Andrews, Carnoustie and Dornoch). Or played in 'shoulder season' (RCD, Royal Portrush, Turnberry). And there are others where I've decided the green fee is too expensive to justify, eg Sunningdale. I'd love to play it, but understand it 'owes' me nothing, my loss.

Whichever courses you chose to play - or not - enjoy it. Everyone's different. There's no right answer. Life's too short.

 

[SammmeBee]

6 paragraphs of opinions over the last 15 pages, nothing new to answer.

Although getting Open tickets is not that easy......

 

[SammmeBee]

I think Trump Aberdeen has made a huge loss every year it has been open.
I bet plenty others are not making money even before 2020.

How do the continue to exist then?

 

[Liverbirdie]

I appreciate that but my questions remain.

Who would set the fee and what of those who still found themselves priced out?

We can see from this forum that there is a very wide range of affordability levels.

Mickie, I'm trying to get out of this thread, but I'm a polite guy and your a good egg, but stop asking me more questions!!

I dont know mate index link it to the price of unicorn saddles and mig 18 acker macker valves.

 

[IanM]

How do the continue to exist then?

Borrowing and funding from the rest of the Group. Probably. Big asset..if wonky cash flow!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

How do the continue to exist then?

According to a recent report by the BBC the Trump golf courses in Scotland are both loss makers.

I believe a similar situation is developing with the American courses.