St Andrews Discontinues 3-Day Unlimited Pass

[sunshine]

I think in a lot of cases this is just an excuse or a rationale clubs have used to reduce visitor numbers whilst maintaining income (because they can).
American visitors obviously exist and are very present at the bucket list courses, however the likes of Pyle and Kenfig and Pennard in South Wales are hardly overrun with them but they have increased fees by 3 or 4 fold. The same is true at the better Dorset courses which don’t see coach loads of US visitors to rolling up day after day. I regularly play Burnham and Berrow and have yet to see groups of overseas visitors
It is a supply and demand issue that, as the golf boom slows, might change.

It's the trickle down effect. If the top courses can charge £300+ and entertain the US Dollar, then the next tier can charge £200 to accommodate people who want to play a great course but aren't prepared to pay £300.

 

[D-S]

It's the trickle down effect. If the top courses can charge £300+ and entertain the US Dollar, then the next tier can charge £200 to accommodate people who want to play a great course but aren't prepared to pay £300.

I was answering the point made in the post that 2nd tier courses needed to put their prices up otherwise Americans would just turn their noses up and play elsewhere. I question the volume of Americans rocking up to play at the courses mentioned.
Interesting to know where the ‘trickle down’ stops though as if it were the case all courses would have stopped offering discounted County Card rates and tripled there green fees too.

 

[rystaman]

I was answering the point made in the post that 2nd tier courses needed to put their prices up otherwise Americans would just turn their noses up and play elsewhere. I question the volume of Americans rocking up to play at the courses mentioned.
Interesting to know where the ‘trickle down’ stops though as if it were the case all courses would have stopped offering discounted County Card rates and tripled there green fees too.

Using St Annes as the example, they used to get overlooked when people would come and play Royal Liverpool, Royal Lytham etc. due to it being £80. And they've actively seen more international and largely American visitors since putting it up to £140...

Pennard and the like, not a clue.

 

[Backache]

My overall impression is that it's not so much that US visitors want to pay top dollar as that they are prepared to and have been coming over in increasing numbers.
Getting tee times on courses popular with US visitors is much more difficult than it used to be.

 

[sunshine]

I was answering the point made in the post that 2nd tier courses needed to put their prices up otherwise Americans would just turn their noses up and play elsewhere. I question the volume of Americans rocking up to play at the courses mentioned.
Interesting to know where the ‘trickle down’ stops though as if it were the case all courses would have stopped offering discounted County Card rates and tripled there green fees too.

I understand your point. It’s clear 2nd tier courses close to bucket list venues can pump up their prices because there is demand from tourists in the area.

I think places like Burnham & Berrow are doing it to capture demand from people who aren’t prepared to pay £300+ but want a premium links experience. I’m guessing it’s largely a domestic market priced out of the Open venues. I would include myself in that category, I’m playing there for the first time on Wednesday.

 

[rystaman]

I understand your point. It’s clear 2nd tier courses close to bucket list venues can pump up their prices because there is demand from tourists in the area.

I think places like Burnham & Berrow are doing it to capture demand from people who aren’t prepared to pay £300+ but want a premium links experience. I’m guessing it’s largely a domestic market priced out of the Open venues. I would include myself in that category, I’m playing there for the first time on Wednesday.

I mean at £195 it's still steep for Burnham & Berrow that, I'd argue at that price myself and a lot of the domestic market are still priced out

 

[Klimski]

I know I've actually started a similar thread once upon a time, and I've also come out against high green fees elsewhere on the forum. But, I think if you live in Scotland, England or Ireland (even Wales), you should still count your blessings. You can be priced out of the top tier courses, but there will nearly always be a really fine course to play within an hours drive for around 60UKP up to 100UKP. Over here in the Netherlands, there is such a steep drop off between the few great (and exclusive/expensive) courses we have and the courses that the rest of us play. Especially in what we call the 'Randstad' the urban conglomorate of Amsterdam, The Hague all the way down to Rotterdam. There's 5-7 great courses and then everything else is bland, flat, full of water hazards and overloaded with golfers. To get on to one of the great courses you need to know someone, and/or pay through the nose.

 

[sunshine]

I know I've actually started a similar thread once upon a time, and I've also come out against high green fees elsewhere on the forum. But, I think if you live in Scotland, England or Ireland (even Wales), you should still count your blessings. You can be priced out of the top tier courses, but there will nearly always be a really fine course to play within an hours drive for around 60UKP up to 100UKP. Over here in the Netherlands, there is such a steep drop off between the few great (and exclusive/expensive) courses we have and the courses that the rest of us play. Especially in what we call the 'Randstad' the urban conglomorate of Amsterdam, The Hague all the way down to Rotterdam. There's 5-7 great courses and then everything else is bland, flat, full of water hazards and overloaded with golfers. To get on to one of the great courses you need to know someone, and/or pay through the nose.

I've been doing some research as planning a round in the Netherlands. Seems to be a good rate of €150 to play the top courses for members of the NGF (I assume this includes all members of a Dutch course). Two courses I want to play are:

1. Kennemer €150 / €185
2. Koninklijke Haagsche €150 / €240

These are world class courses within an hour of Amsterdam, and reasonably priced compared to equivalent courses in the UK. Ranking websites rate these on a par with the classic links courses on the other side of the channel like RSG and Cinq Ports, which are considerably more expensive.

If I get to play them this summer I will report back!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I know I've actually started a similar thread once upon a time, and I've also come out against high green fees elsewhere on the forum. But, I think if you live in Scotland, England or Ireland (even Wales), you should still count your blessings. You can be priced out of the top tier courses, but there will nearly always be a really fine course to play within an hours drive for around 60UKP up to 100UKP. Over here in the Netherlands, there is such a steep drop off between the few great (and exclusive/expensive) courses we have and the courses that the rest of us play. Especially in what we call the 'Randstad' the urban conglomorate of Amsterdam, The Hague all the way down to Rotterdam. There's 5-7 great courses and then everything else is bland, flat, full of water hazards and overloaded with golfers. To get on to one of the great courses you need to know someone, and/or pay through the nose.

In the early 1990's I spent a very interesting day hosting a mixed group of Dutch golf developers who were planning to build around 6 'municipal' style golf course in areas of high population.
At that time Holland had no municipal golf courses due to expensive land costs.
The 'Councils' were to donate the land or part fund the purchase and the developers would build and run.

I never found out if the plan became active.

 

[Klimski]

I've been doing some research as planning a round in the Netherlands. Seems to be a good rate of €150 to play the top courses for members of the NGF (I assume this includes all members of a Dutch course). Two courses I want to play are:

1. Kennemer €150 / €185
2. Koninklijke Haagsche €150 / €240

These are world class courses within an hour of Amsterdam, and reasonably priced compared to equivalent courses in the UK. Ranking websites rate these on a par with the classic links courses on the other side of the channel like RSG and Cinq Ports, which are considerably more expensive.

If I get to play them this summer I will report back!

I've been lucky to play the Kennemer once every year or so, as my cousin is a member. It's a great course. Ideally, you should spend a day there, as there are three loops of 9 holes. I haven't had the good fortune to play the Koninklijke Haagsche, but would LOVE to. Other courses in the area: Noordwijkse - which I even prefer and is in the same 'tier' of courses in NL. You could do a nice west coast swing: Kennemer, Noordwijk, Koninklijke Haagsche - all within two hours driving of The Hague. Also, there's a newer course, called The International - which hosts The Dutch Open. Don't know whether they accept visitors though. If you want a taste of the best real Dutch polder style courses: just west of Amsterdam you can find the Amsterdamse and The Houtrak - two of the best examples of the type of courses that you'll find throughout The Netherlands: plenty of water hazards, terrain making the most of very, very flat country.

Oh, and should you venture further inland, I can very much recommend De Rosendaelsche - an absolutely glorious heathland/forest style course. I played some student tournaments there and really loved it.

 

[Klimski]

In the early 1990's I spent a very interesting day hosting a mixed group of Dutch golf developers who were planning to build around 6 'municipal' style golf course in areas of high population.
At that time Holland had no municipal golf courses due to expensive land costs.
The 'Councils' were to donate the land or part fund the purchase and the developers would build and run.

I never found out if the plan became active.

I only know that from the '90's on, municipal golf really did take off in The Netherlands. I am no golf historian, but Amsterdam for example has De Hoge Dijk, created in the 90's - three loops of 9 holes created on former waste land (a garbage dump in fact). And there are similar courses near Rotterdam and other towns. So perhaps this plan did come about - more or less. Nearer to where I live is a huge municipal golf complex: Spaarnwoude. Which was built in the late 70's. It features something like 54 holes of golf, from a par 3 course, to championship loops of 9 holes. At the time it was built, it was quite revolutionary in European (continental) golf. I play there often, and the courses are pretty okay. I particularily enjoy an executive 9 hole loop called (poetically) the B-holes.