Inflation of Greens Fees for the Top UK Courses

[Papas1982]

I dont think you can compare a football club with a golf club as most top top courses are owned by members and why would they want to discount something that they can sell for full price, they are not interested in any UK loyalty or they would be doing that already.

Well I guess you will see how much they want to lower the fees as it looks like we wont have any american visitors again for the most part of this season so lets see how the big hitters adjust the green fees.

Would be interesting to see what and if any deals are on the table.

I'll be keeping an eye on this.

Hoping that an impromptu visit to Scotland this summer may happen ????

 

[Liverbirdie]

I dont think you can compare a football club with a golf club as most top top courses are owned by members and why would they want to discount something that they can sell for full price, they are not interested in any UK loyalty or they would be doing that already.

Well I guess you will see how much they want to lower the fees as it looks like we wont have any american visitors again for the most part of this season so lets see how the big hitters adjust the green fees.

Would be interesting to see what and if any deals are on the table.

Semantics.

Pressure was brought to bear on premiership clubs and they relented.

Pressure was brought to bear on Muirfield because they didnt allow women as members, they relented.

if the R and A and England / Scotland / Wales / GUI brought pressure to bear, and allied it to being kept on the open rota or not, I'm sure it would make a difference.

I'm not expecting it to happen anytime soon, but it's surprising what can happen once a momentum of support builds.

Separately, you just can't help yourself can you..........

 

[Liverbirdie]

You can't compare visiting golfers with football fans.

The latter are committed to one team and if they can't afford to watch their team, either at home or away, they will not go to watch one of their rivals.

Therefore it is not truly a market.

Golfers are, in that respect, different. If they can't afford say Muirfield then they will often compromise and visit Gullane for example.

If I was a member of one of the clubs charging these very high fees I would not want to see the green fee reduced if it was going to result in a fall in the club's income as the members would be those expected to cover that shortfall.

Also if the reduction was to lead to an increase in visitors I would not be happy if that then reduced my access to start times.

If the Club felt that they needed to greatly increase the number of visitors then the Committee will have a tough task in selling that to their members.

Why not, if people are saying that these places are just businesses, arent both just customer's then.

There are differences, no doubt, and I get the loyalty thing but if the popular premiership clubs raised the prices that much (lets say to £ 200.00 a ticket) and got rid of season ticket holders and replaced them by 90% tourists do you think it would be willingly accepted in the UK?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Why not, if people are saying that these places are just businesses, arent both just customer's then.

There are differences, no doubt, and I get the loyalty thing but if the popular premiership clubs raised the prices that much (lets say to £ 200.00 a ticket) and got rid of season ticket holders and replaced them by 90% tourists do you think it would be willingly accepted in the UK?

I am more interested in why you think that the members of these clubs should subsidise casual visitors.

As to football tickets and the pricing structure, that is up to the individual club to decide what balance they require.

After all they have the rather substantial cushion of television money to fall back on.

 

[howbow88]

Semantics.

Pressure was brought to bear on premiership clubs and they relented.

Pressure was brought to bear on Muirfield because they didnt allow women as members, they relented.

if the R and A and England / Scotland / Wales / GUI brought pressure to bear, and allied it to being kept on the open rota or not, I'm sure it would make a difference.

I'm not expecting it to happen anytime soon, but it's surprising what can happen once a momentum of support builds.

Separately, you just can't help yourself can you..........

Just a quick point on the PL clubs accepting this though:

Most clubs were charging about £35-40 for away adult tickets. Once the £30 rule came in, plenty of clubs completely did away with OAP, student and kids discounted tickets. So in some cases, a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 kids) actually ended up paying more than before the rule came in.

The PL also used to give each club £50k a year to spend on away fans. Some clubs used this to subsidise coach travel for their fans, some used it to enhance the away facilities in their own ground. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that when the £30 rule came in, the clubs ended up just pocketing the £50k payment...

The point I'm getting at is that financially, I don't think PL clubs are much worse off than they were before the £30 away ticket was introduced. And even if they are, it is a drop in the ocean for them.

So I am with you and I would love to see something similar like this for golf, but I think it is a very different ball game to the PL. A better argument for me is the previously mentioned Orange County National, near Orlando. They give 3 rates - Orlando residents, Florida residents, everyone else.

It would be great to see some clubs do similar to that, but I don't see it happening sadly.

 

[Captainron]

Lowering the cost of the top courses to let more folk on because they don’t fancy paying for the privilege is deluded.

They can charge what they like and I am sure they review the income received v the impact on course/membership etc

They look after their members first and foremost.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Semantics.

Pressure was brought to bear on premiership clubs and they relented.

Pressure was brought to bear on Muirfield because they didnt allow women as members, they relented.

if the R and A and England / Scotland / Wales / GUI brought pressure to bear, and allied it to being kept on the open rota or not, I'm sure it would make a difference.

I'm not expecting it to happen anytime soon, but it's surprising what can happen once a momentum of support builds.

Separately, you just can't help yourself can you..........

You will never gain that momentum of support since there are not that many UK golfers willing to pay even your suggested fee of £150.

Nor would the governing bodies wish to become involved in an issue way outside their remit.

The top clubs also have some top members who would be quite prepared to fund legal action to fight what would quite rightly be seen as outrageous interference in the running of their clubs.

Non-members have no right or entitlement to access these courses whether from Birmingham, Alabama or Birmingham, England.

In what way have any of us contributed to the establishment and upkeep of these courses, such that we should, in some way, be rewarded?

Where is any line to be drawn with subsidising locals? Should the practice only apply to green fees or should it extend to all goods and services?

 

[Liverbirdie]

I am more interested in why you think that the members of these clubs should subsidise casual visitors.

As to football tickets and the pricing structure, that is up to the individual club to decide what balance they require.

After all they have the rather substantial cushion of television money to fall back on.

Lets face it, its probably the other way around. A lot of top clubs outside of the South west are only marginally higher subs than clubs that are say top 100-200.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Just a quick point on the PL clubs accepting this though:

Most clubs were charging about £35-40 for away adult tickets. Once the £30 rule came in, plenty of clubs completely did away with OAP, student and kids discounted tickets. So in some cases, a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 kids) actually ended up paying more than before the rule came in.

The PL also used to give each club £50k a year to spend on away fans. Some clubs used this to subsidise coach travel for their fans, some used it to enhance the away facilities in their own ground. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that when the £30 rule came in, the clubs ended up just pocketing the £50k payment...

The point I'm getting at is that financially, I don't think PL clubs are much worse off than they were before the £30 away ticket was introduced. And even if they are, it is a drop in the ocean for them.

So I am with you and I would love to see something similar like this for golf, but I think it is a very different ball game to the PL. A better argument for me is the previously mentioned Orange County National, near Orlando. They give 3 rates - Orlando residents, Florida residents, everyone else.

It would be great to see some clubs do similar to that, but I don't see it happening sadly.

I'd say that some of that was correct but some wasnt, although i stopped going "away" about 5 years ago. if the clubs min-managed it, bad form.

I remember West Brom charging £18 on year, went down come up again within a few years then up to £50. Birmingham was another, i was made up they went down, their prices doubled for away fans in about 3-4 years.

Agree on the Florida option.

 

[KenL]

Lowering the cost of the top courses to let more folk on because they don’t fancy paying for the privilege is deluded.

They can charge what they like and I am sure they review the income received v the impact on course/membership etc

They look after their members first and foremost.

Some of these "top" courses do not have or have very few members.
e.g. Turnberry, Kingsbarns, Castle Stuart.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Lowering the cost of the top courses to let more folk on because they don’t fancy paying for the privilege is deluded.

They can charge what they like and I am sure they review the income received v the impact on course/membership etc

They look after their members first and foremost.

Im sure this has been posted on this thread alone about 40 times, it doesnt need to repeated.

I know what they are doing, just dont agree with the levels of "inflation".

 

[Liverbirdie]

You will never gain that momentum of support since there are not that many UK golfers willing to pay even your suggested fee of £150.

Nor would the governing bodies wish to become involved in an issue way outside their remit.

The top clubs also have some top members who would be quite prepared to fund legal action to fight what would quite rightly be seen as outrageous interference in the running of their clubs.

Non-members have no right or entitlement to access these courses whether from Birmingham, Alabama or Birmingham, England.

In what way have any of us contributed to the establishment and upkeep of these courses, such that we should, in some way, be rewarded?

Where is any line to be drawn with subsidising locals? Should the practice only apply to green fees or should it extend to all goods and services?

I wouldnt expect it to gain a large level of support when so many golfers say "well its market related", up to the clubs and other such apologist behaviour.

Did Muirfield fund legal action when pressure was brought to bear over women members?

No one has said they anyone should have a "right", so a moot point.

As Ive said, people keep coming back with the same arguments, which has been done before in all walks of life. I'm sure Britain saying the slave trade should be banned, premiership clubs away prices, apartheid and equal rights for women had loads of "deluded" people amongst their number and were scolded by "apologists", it doesnt mean to say that they werent successful.

I can understand a "premium rate" for a premium course, and only so many visitor tee times being available, but where does it end? Will you be saying that when its £1,000 for a round in 5 years time?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I wouldnt expect it to gain a large level of support when so many golfers say "well its market related", up to the clubs and other such apologist behaviour.

Did Muirfield fund legal action when pressure was brought to bear over women members?

No one has said they anyone should have a "right", so a moot point.

As Ive said, people keep coming back with the same arguments, which has been done before in all walks of life. I'm sure Britain saying the slave trade should be banned, premiership clubs away prices, apartheid and equal rights for women had loads of "deluded" people amongst their number and were scolded by "apologists", it doesnt mean to say that they werent successful.

I can understand a "premium rate" for a premium course, and only so many visitor tee times being available, but where does it end? Will you be saying that when its £1,000 for a round in 5 years time?

One of the more ludicrous posts that I have ever read.

To compare human rights issues such as racial and sexual discrimination, slavery and others with green fees and football ticket pricing beggars belief.

A more appropriate analogy would be dress codes and green fees.

We accept that clubs are allowed to insist upon certain standards of dress to obtain access to their course and the same is true for the cost of that access.

We don't have to agree with them but as I and others have said; "Their club, their rules."

 

[USER1999]

One thing that does tee me off, after paying a boat load of cash to play, is being a 2nd class citizen. Visitors car park, visitors locker room, visitors bar, you play off that tee, you can't wear those clothes (I have been with a guy from my club who was asked to leave because his clothes, which met the dress code, were not deemed suitable), etc.

My favourite was, the coach driver can't play. Even if he parks the coach in the lay by down the road, and comes back, nope, he can't play, he is the coach driver. Cue 42 refunds.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I am more interested in why you think that the members of these clubs should subsidise casual visitors.

As to football tickets and the pricing structure, that is up to the individual club to decide what balance they require.

After all they have the rather substantial cushion of television money to fall back on.

For those those on the Open rota, then is it members subsidising visitors? Presumably clubs make a reasonable income from hosting the Open and also the impact of visitors wanting to play and rates. There is an argument that if they are going to benefit from that then they should in turn be putting value back into golf for the home nations which could be in the form of reduced rates on certain days for example.

For those not on it, then I agree they can go by supply and demand rules even if that means huge green fee prices although I wonder if that is within the spirit of golf being a social sport for all.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

One thing that does tee me off, after paying a boat load of cash to play, is being a 2nd class citizen. Visitors car park, visitors locker room, visitors bar, you play off that tee, you can't wear those clothes (I have been with a guy from my club who was asked to leave because his clothes, which met the dress code, were not deemed suitable), etc.

My favourite was, the coach driver can't play. Even if he parks the coach in the lay by down the road, and comes back, nope, he can't play, he is the coach driver. Cue 42 refunds.

I'm sure someone will along shortly to say "their club, their rules"

Bus driver makes me laugh, he could be a county standard golfer for all they know, yet not the "right short of chap".

 

[D-S]

We are lucky in the UK to be able to play the Open rota and historic courses. In many parts of the world their top courses are Private Country Clubs and never allow any non member introduced visitors at all. They charge what the market can afford - whether you think this is value for your money is a purely personal decision. I believe that the Savoy is a historical monument and part of the fabric of London life but I think it would be foolish to ask for a discount for a night's stay because I am a UK resident.

 

[Captainron]

Some of these "top" courses do not have or have very few members.
e.g. Turnberry, Kingsbarns, Castle Stuart.

And in those instances they are there to make money. Luckily for them they all have a product which they can charge a massive premium for and we have no say in that.

 

[sunshine]

I think most POV have been said on this subject now, but for the people who said that it would be "impossible" for some of the clubs to agree to a GB & I or national rate, consider what the premiership clubs did for away fans a few years ago.

After a few years "campaigning" the fans finally got the premiership clubs as a whole to introduce the "twenty is plenty" rate for away fans. This was always mooted as turkeys voting for Xmas, but it worked.

£150 is plenty?

Unfortunately this is not a valid comparison.

Premier league clubs need fans because the atmosphere enhances "the product". The gate receipts are now less important than the global tv revenue, so capping ticket prices is a small price to pay if it leads to more crowd noise and a more passionate atmosphere. It's well accepted that the "expensive seats" make less noise.

For a golf club it's irrelevant. In fact they are less likely to want the atmosphere generated by "noisy plebs" on the course.

 

[Captainron]

Im sure this has been posted on this thread alone about 40 times, it doesnt need to repeated.

I know what they are doing, just dont agree with the levels of "inflation".

Inflation means rock all in this context. We’re not buying milk or bread.