bigslice
Tour Winner
i could shoot one from 280 yards away
'ear we go again...... don't you mean 225 yards ??
Chris
aye with a three wood
aye with a three wood
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
I can't be bothered to debate the rights and wrongs of it - it's too late and I've had too much to drink but what I will say is two fold.
1) It always makes me laugh when I see a hunt. The horses, the hounds, the dress code - it's all seeped in Great British history. I can close my eyes and imagine the 1850s English countryside awash with these rich, upper class individuals all decked out in their 'hunting' gear and I can't help but think that they all look bloody rediculous!!! They look like a cross between a Grenadier Guard and a chav. I'm sure it's all very noble but they all look like knobs.
2) My garage is next to a massive bush where an inner city fox lives. I know it's an inner city fox because it wears it's jeans half way down it's arse and it carries a knife! Whenever I go near my car when it's dark, the bloody fox moves in the bush and scares the living sh1t out of me! So, if there's any hunts (that's HUNTS) in the North Kent area, could they ride through my road and scare the little scrote off?
1) It always makes me laugh when I see a hunt. The horses, the hounds, the dress code - it's all seeped in Great British history. I can close my eyes and imagine the 1850s English countryside awash with these rich, upper class individuals all decked out in their 'hunting' gear and I can't help but think that they all look bloody rediculous!!! They look like a cross between a Grenadier Guard and a chav. I'm sure it's all very noble but they all look like knobs.
2) My garage is next to a massive bush where an inner city fox lives. I know it's an inner city fox because it wears it's jeans half way down it's arse and it carries a knife! Whenever I go near my car when it's dark, the bloody fox moves in the bush and scares the living sh1t out of me! So, if there's any hunts (that's HUNTS) in the North Kent area, could they ride through my road and scare the little scrote off?
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
i could shoot one from 280 yards away
'ear we go again...... don't you mean 225 yards ??
Chris
Would you have to aim 50yds to the left to hit it?
Leftie
Tour Winner
Seeing as how I'm a townie, I'm not absolutely sure but as I understand it...
Under current legislation, it is against the law to hunt the fox, flush it, and let the hounds kill it. It is legal to hunt the fox, flush it, keep the hounds off and shoot the fox. It is also legal for a trail to be laid by a runner for the hounds to follow.
Should the hounds be allowed to savage the runner if caught, or should he be shot?
I noted that Snelly didn't give any detail of the type of hunt. Those jumping to conclusions may have been right but I suspect he was toying with you.
It's people like my 'king neighbour who puts food out for the foxes that are not helping the urban fox population problem.
Ggrrrrrrrrrr
Under current legislation, it is against the law to hunt the fox, flush it, and let the hounds kill it. It is legal to hunt the fox, flush it, keep the hounds off and shoot the fox. It is also legal for a trail to be laid by a runner for the hounds to follow.
Should the hounds be allowed to savage the runner if caught, or should he be shot?
I noted that Snelly didn't give any detail of the type of hunt. Those jumping to conclusions may have been right but I suspect he was toying with you.
It's people like my 'king neighbour who puts food out for the foxes that are not helping the urban fox population problem.
Ggrrrrrrrrrr
surefire
Challenge Tour Pro
Like has been said before, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, especially from people who have never lived in the country. Foxes are not so much a threat to children, as to smaller livestock, such a lambs, chickens etc...
Also shooting is only as humane as the skill of the marksman. Having lived in Michigan, where hunting bears and deer is quite common, I have seen people take shots which wound the animal, but don't kill it. Then before it can be finished off the animal then runs off to hide and die slowly. Not particularly any more humane.
I've also had people get angry\upset at killing bambi. What they don't understand is the problems of the massive overpopulation of deer.
They also probably also haven't seen\experienced having a deer run into the road and head butt their car!
Also shooting is only as humane as the skill of the marksman. Having lived in Michigan, where hunting bears and deer is quite common, I have seen people take shots which wound the animal, but don't kill it. Then before it can be finished off the animal then runs off to hide and die slowly. Not particularly any more humane.
I've also had people get angry\upset at killing bambi. What they don't understand is the problems of the massive overpopulation of deer.
They also probably also haven't seen\experienced having a deer run into the road and head butt their car!
bigslice
Tour Winner
i could shoot one from 280 yards away
'ear we go again...... don't you mean 225 yards ??
Chris
Would you have to aim 50yds to the left to hit it?
as my name suggests it would be 55 yards to the left
freddielong
Tour Winner
I do not think you can actually use the culling argument as you have, or the supporters have stated you kill very few foxes.
So it must just be a case that you enjoy watching an animal torn to bits.
So it must just be a case that you enjoy watching an animal torn to bits.
Baldyeagle
Assistant Pro
Something makes me think that we're all missing the golf & starting to go stir-crazy?
chrisd
Major Champion
Yes, most of these arguments hold water until you look at fox hunting for what it is ... its a sport! Lots of people chasing an animal for the excitement and then dressing up a savage kill as being good for the countryside and conservation. I would rather the foxes take their chances with the bullett.
I guess it would be similar to the winning pair on a Sunday 4BBB to be freely allowed to club the losers to death on the last hole - after all... only the strong survive and the number of vets at my club suggest that a cull is necessary.!
Fancy a game Smiffy?
bobmac
Major Champion
Ok, so foxes are wild animals and can be dangerous. I accept that.
Their numbers need to be controlled. I accept that.
I accept that the foxes numbers need to be controlled but why get all dressed up to do it.
Lots of toffs getting dressed up to show the peasants how much better they are than them, because they have lots of horses, dogs and servants (runners).
If you want to hunt down foxes, jump in a land rover with a couple of rifles and do it properly and humanely, that way, no-one would bat an eyelid.
Just my opinion of course
Their numbers need to be controlled. I accept that.
I accept that the foxes numbers need to be controlled but why get all dressed up to do it.
Lots of toffs getting dressed up to show the peasants how much better they are than them, because they have lots of horses, dogs and servants (runners).
If you want to hunt down foxes, jump in a land rover with a couple of rifles and do it properly and humanely, that way, no-one would bat an eyelid.
Just my opinion of course
Yes, most of these arguments hold water until you look at fox hunting for what it is ... its a sport! Lots of people chasing an animal for the excitement and then dressing up a savage kill as being good for the countryside and conservation. I would rather the foxes take their chances with the bullett.
I guess it would be similar to the winning pair on a Sunday 4BBB to be freely allowed to club the losers to death on the last hole - after all... only the strong survive and the number of vets at my club suggest that a cull is necessary.!
Fancy a game Smiffy?
[/QUOTE]
Whos decision is it that these animals are over populated? look at us humans, surely it is us that have taken over the animals domains and is our job being the "superior beings" to look after these other animals, eat a few on the way, granted, but who are we to say some family of deer or badgers or rabbits etc are not allowed to live in the same we we demand to have a high standard of life?
We really are an arrogant bunch of tossers.
surefire
Challenge Tour Pro
Overpopulation is a fact. It means there's not enough resources to support all the species in the environment. The question as to what's overpopulated is another matter. However I imagine that if this is the uproar from killing deer or a fox, the uproar from culling humans would be even louder!
The second problem is that humans have developed society and emotions. They then like to attach these to every living thing possible. Since the dawn of time, beginning with dinosaurs, groups of creatures, have got together and hunted down and torn apart other creatures. It's instinctive. However as humans have developed the means to not require to do this, they have also developed rules to say it's not acceptable. Nearly all other creatures in the world still do this, whether it is necessary or not. Domesticated creatures for instance still hunt prey, just for pleasure.
Its the same situation where people think their pet comes to them because it "loves" them. It comes to them, because they provide food, or it is instinctive to live in a pack etc... However as humans, we like to attach our societies values to its behaviour.
For humans, its actually instinctively pleasing to hunt something, which is why some people enjoy it as a sport. It's also why we have made up sports and games which simulate hunting and violence, so we can get our fix.
It's only societal rules that say it is bad, the laws of nature do not.
The second problem is that humans have developed society and emotions. They then like to attach these to every living thing possible. Since the dawn of time, beginning with dinosaurs, groups of creatures, have got together and hunted down and torn apart other creatures. It's instinctive. However as humans have developed the means to not require to do this, they have also developed rules to say it's not acceptable. Nearly all other creatures in the world still do this, whether it is necessary or not. Domesticated creatures for instance still hunt prey, just for pleasure.
Its the same situation where people think their pet comes to them because it "loves" them. It comes to them, because they provide food, or it is instinctive to live in a pack etc... However as humans, we like to attach our societies values to its behaviour.
For humans, its actually instinctively pleasing to hunt something, which is why some people enjoy it as a sport. It's also why we have made up sports and games which simulate hunting and violence, so we can get our fix.
It's only societal rules that say it is bad, the laws of nature do not.
freddielong
Tour Winner
You could say the same for most things murder and genocide included
surefire
Challenge Tour Pro
Yes, because it's true.
We may decide these things are bad, but they are certainly natural.
We may decide these things are bad, but they are certainly natural.
bigslice
Tour Winner
i reckon once you get to say 65 and you have stopped working then you should be put to sleep. imo
freddielong
Tour Winner
So gang rape, Murder and cannibalism are all only bad because we say so, ethically there isn't a problem as they also happen all the time in nature
Surely you cannot really be that stupid, perhaps you are still drunk from Christmas
surefire
Challenge Tour Pro
Do you realise what you said?
"Ethically there isn't a problem" and "only bad because we say so" are the same thing. Ethics are judged against our own rules and ideals.
I didn't say I personally think these things are ok, just that we only think they are wrong through silly rules we ourselves have created.
Perhaps we should arrest and try all animals in this world, because they do all of the things you have listed?
"Ethically there isn't a problem" and "only bad because we say so" are the same thing. Ethics are judged against our own rules and ideals.
I didn't say I personally think these things are ok, just that we only think they are wrong through silly rules we ourselves have created.
Perhaps we should arrest and try all animals in this world, because they do all of the things you have listed?
freddielong
Tour Winner
Sorry these things are morally and ethically wrong, which is why the rules were created the morals come before the rules
surefire
Challenge Tour Pro
The big caveat you keep failing to exclude is 'in your opinion'.
There is no right or wrong answer, as to whether something is right or wrong, because right or wrong is opinion not fact. There may be subjects where there is a lot of common agreement of opinion, but it's still not a fact.
I have been offering arguments to prove hunting is instinctive, I never offered an argument to say it is right, because, right or wrong cannot be absolutely proven.
If you want to argue its not instinctive, please go ahead,
Otherwise, if you're only concerned with right or wrong, you'll have to accept that we have different opinions, but neither of us is right.
There is no right or wrong answer, as to whether something is right or wrong, because right or wrong is opinion not fact. There may be subjects where there is a lot of common agreement of opinion, but it's still not a fact.
I have been offering arguments to prove hunting is instinctive, I never offered an argument to say it is right, because, right or wrong cannot be absolutely proven.
If you want to argue its not instinctive, please go ahead,
Otherwise, if you're only concerned with right or wrong, you'll have to accept that we have different opinions, but neither of us is right.
freddielong
Tour Winner
I do understand what you are saying, and you can use Philosophy for and against most arguments, but its not my opinion its the opinion of the majority which in a democracy is as good as it gets.
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