Hunting this morning - tally ho!

[JustOne]

I do understand what you are saying, and you can use Philosophy for and against most arguments, but its not my opinion its the opinion of the majority which in a democracy is as good as it gets.

I agree but in a democracy we are faced with the fact that it's NOT a majority decision, only the views of those who we elected to speak on our behalf... who rarely say or do what we expected of them

In this particular example the MAJORITY of people would ban fox hunting completely... so why does it still exist?

 

[SatchFan]

Human culling - should be carried out on any fourball that takes over five hours to complete 18 holes.

 

[freddielong]

I do understand what you are saying, and you can use Philosophy for and against most arguments, but its not my opinion its the opinion of the majority which in a democracy is as good as it gets.

I agree but in a democracy we are faced with the fact that it's NOT a majority decision, only the views of those who we elected to speak on our behalf... who rarely say or do what we expected of them

In this particular example the MAJORITY of people would ban fox hunting completely... so why does it still exist?

I agree it is a democracy in name only otherwise you couldn't have things like the Human rights bill etc

 

[Snelly]

I enjoy hunting, I understand it and given that I have done plenty of it, I think I am far more qualified to understand the rights and wrongs of it than anyone on this forum who has never been and actually experienced it.

Same goes for shooting too I guess. I have done a lot of it and understand it in great detail.


None of this really matters too much though. I am sure that those who have made statements that criticise my views and pastimes all do things in their lives that I think are morally wrong and certainly don't fit with my world view. Watching X Factor or Big Brother for example, eating at Kentucky Fried Chicken. All things that I fundamentally disagree with and that I think are absolutely wrong.

However, the difference is that I respect your right to do these utterly stupid things and I would not for one second think of making a genuine statement around either banning them or hoping that you injure yourself as you undertake them. It is up to you. It is a free country. Feel free to get on with it.


Shame that those who oppose some of the things I am interested cannot say the same...

 

[chrisd]

I have been offering arguments to prove hunting is instinctive, I never offered an argument to say it is right, because, right or wrong cannot be absolutely proven.

I don't think that too many of us "anti fox hunters" disagree with hunting as such- it's the fact that it's done as a sport, for fun but they won't just admit it. But, for me, worse than that it's the damn lies by the participants who try to tell us reasonably intelligent people that they rarely catch a fox but in the next breath insist it's only done to keep numbers down!


Chris

 

[drawboy]

Sorry Snelly but that is a load of bunkum. How can anyone compare watching the x factor with something as cruel and heartless as ripping a living animal to pieces with a pack of dogs is beyond my comprehension. If you want to do it then get on with it but surely you must have known that by putting such a contentious subject on an open forum you were going to get opposition from other forum members to such a pursuit.
Did you think perhaps that people were going to say "What a good idea, wish you all the luck in the world and we hope you get a fox or two".

 

[surefire]

I don't know, the way some reality TV entrants lives are destroyed for public entertainment, I might prefer to be the fox!

 

[chrisd]

I enjoy hunting, I understand it and given that I have done plenty of it, I think I am far more qualified to understand the rights and wrongs of it than anyone on this forum who has never been and actually experienced it.

Same goes for shooting too I guess. I have done a lot of it and understand it in great detail.


None of this really matters too much though. I am sure that those who have made statements that criticise my views and pastimes all do things in their lives that I think are morally wrong and certainly don't fit with my world view. Watching X Factor or Big Brother for example, eating at Kentucky Fried Chicken. All things that I fundamentally disagree with and that I think are absolutely wrong.

However, the difference is that I respect your right to do these utterly stupid things and I would not for one second think of making a genuine statement around either banning them or hoping that you injure yourself as you undertake them. It is up to you. It is a free country. Feel free to get on with it.


Shame that those who oppose some of the things I am interested cannot say the same...

Your getting a bit mixed up my friend .... firstly fox hunting is illegal, it is not a free country!

Watching X factor etc is not morally wrong ... if you dont like it, don't watch but don't tell me it's morally wrong if I choose to see it whilst enjoying a KFC, at the moment they are still legal

If you want to moralise on a touchy subject don't get too annoyed when passions run high and most of all dont tell those of us who are always right that we arn't


Chris

 

[freddielong]

I enjoy hunting, I understand it and given that I have done plenty of it, I think I am far more qualified to understand the rights and wrongs of it than anyone on this forum who has never been and actually experienced it.

Same goes for shooting too I guess. I have done a lot of it and understand it in great detail.


None of this really matters too much though. I am sure that those who have made statements that criticise my views and pastimes all do things in their lives that I think are morally wrong and certainly don't fit with my world view. Watching X Factor or Big Brother for example, eating at Kentucky Fried Chicken. All things that I fundamentally disagree with and that I think are absolutely wrong.

However, the difference is that I respect your right to do these utterly stupid things and I would not for one second think of making a genuine statement around either banning them or hoping that you injure yourself as you undertake them. It is up to you. It is a free country. Feel free to get on with it.


Shame that those who oppose some of the things I am interested cannot say the same...

"I like to kill stuff" and as long as its not you let me do is what you are saying

 

[Snelly]

Sorry Snelly but that is a load of bunkum. How can anyone compare watching the x factor with something as cruel and heartless as ripping a living animal to pieces with a pack of dogs is beyond my comprehension. If you want to do it then get on with it but surely you must have known that by putting such a contentious subject on an open forum you were going to get opposition from other forum members to such a pursuit.
Did you think perhaps that people were going to say "What a good idea, wish you all the luck in the world and we hope you get a fox or two".

Cruel and heartless? Surely you mean XFactor?! And no, it is not bunkum, it is my opinion. You may disagree of course but you cannot dispute it as it is my view and I am sticking to it.

And yes, I agree, understanding hunting is probably beyond your comprehension but if you want to actually come along and see for yourself, then you only have to ask.

And I know plenty of people who would say what you said. Plenty that would not too. Tends to break down on country vs town lines generally.

Come down and visit. I will show you a few country pursuits and you can then make your mind up from an informed perspective based on fact and personal experience.


And yes, I thought it might be contentious but it made for an interesting read.


Snelly.

 

[Snelly]

In this particular example the MAJORITY of people would ban fox hunting completely... so why does it still exist?

I think this is an incorrect statement as I believe most people are agnostic on the subject.

I agree with the point of principle you make though. If we were in a democracy then our politicians would be in favour of capital punishment as this reflects the majority view of the general public in the UK.

 

[JustOne]

I am sure that those who have made statements that criticise my views and pastimes all do things in their lives that I think are morally wrong and certainly don't fit with my world view. Watching X Factor or Big Brother for example, eating at Kentucky Fried Chicken. All things that I fundamentally disagree with and that I think are absolutely wrong.

However, the difference is that I respect your right to do these utterly stupid things and I would not for one second think of making a genuine statement around either banning them or hoping that you injure yourself as you undertake them.

For the record I'd be happy for all X-Factor watchers, Big brother watchers and KFC eaters to die by mauling





OK... maybe not the KFC guys as I don't mind a Zinger myself every now and then

 

[USER1999]

Those elected to represent us can't actually do what we the people want. Decisions have to be made which are unpopular, but for the general good. I didn't vote for tax rises, but they will be necessary. I would vote for free beer and fags (have done in fact, but they didn't get in). This would not be good for the country any way. We live in a democracy, but responsible government can't be democratic.

Fox hunting? Banning it was a cop out. Should have been fishing first, then other blood sports. Why start with the minority ones and miss the biggest one?

 

[Dodger]

I don't have a problem with it and if I participated I wouldn't give a toss if folk don't agree with it in fact it would probably make me enjoy it all the more.

 

[Yerman]

Fish taste better, and are good for the heart!

Grew up hunting with my Dad until I was old enough to think for myself. I'm sure people enjoy watching one animal tear another apart in much the same way as Romans enjoyed gladiators, but civilisation moves on, for the better, usually.

 

[drawboy]

Sorry Snelly but that is a load of bunkum. How can anyone compare watching the x factor with something as cruel and heartless as ripping a living animal to pieces with a pack of dogs is beyond my comprehension. If you want to do it then get on with it but surely you must have known that by putting such a contentious subject on an open forum you were going to get opposition from other forum members to such a pursuit.
Did you think perhaps that people were going to say "What a good idea, wish you all the luck in the world and we hope you get a fox or two".

Cruel and heartless? Surely you mean XFactor?! And no, it is not bunkum, it is my opinion. You may disagree of course but you cannot dispute it as it is my view and I am sticking to it.

And yes, I agree, understanding hunting is probably beyond your comprehension but if you want to actually come along and see for yourself, then you only have to ask.

And I know plenty of people who would say what you said. Plenty that would not too. Tends to break down on country vs town lines generally.

Come down and visit. I will show you a few country pursuits and you can then make your mind up from an informed perspective based on fact and personal experience.


And yes, I thought it might be contentious but it made for an interesting read.


Snelly.

Sorry mate but seeing things being killed in a variety of ways for peoples amusement probably wouldn't change my mind. I do live in a town and I do know what is right and wrong, seeing it in fact it would make me oppose it more. Hunting is far from beyond my comprehension, I understand it very well. I understand the need to control animal populations it is the methods used I object to. As other poeple have said if you must cull the fox then shoot them. For me I view hunting with dogs or guns as a rich persons persuit which they use to re enforce their right to own their land and do what they wish upon it, as everything on it belongs to them, they do get their employees involved however by getting them to breed the animals in the first place for shooting as game keepers, then flush them so they can shoot them or in the case of foxes or deer tear them apart with their dogs.
It's the pack of dogs that most people object to in hunting, I do not think there would be a third as much objection to the animals being shot by trained marksmen.
The use of a pack of hounds will always divide people be it in town or indeed in the countryside.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We have a few local hunts in the Berkshire area and I've seen them ride off all dressed up. Now I don't mind that and the social aspect that goes with it (pre and post drinks, the followers on foot/car) and as an activity it is fine. If your idea of fun is to gallop across fields on top of a big old brute of a horse and risk life and limb then fine and if you want to involve hounds that is also fine PROVIDING you follow a laid trail and not in pursuit of a fox.

I've no statistics or proof but I'm sure even those foxes that aren't caught and ripped apart suffer the effects of stress and some probably go away to hide and die of shock.

There probably is a population problem with foxes but its the same with a lot of animals. Our course is plagued by moles at the moment but laws have been passed to prevent gassing etc and so the problem seems to take longer to eradicate (if at all). If there is a pest problem I'd happily vote for whichever solution, on the basis it was trictly controlled, got rid of it as simply and efficiently as possible. That is a world away from hunting a single fox and killing it whilst alive for enjoyment

 

[Snelly]

I've no statistics or proof but I'm sure even those foxes that aren't caught and ripped apart suffer the effects of stress and some probably go away to hide and die of shock.

This is not the case at all. In fact, I have personally seen a fox in the prime of life being chased by a baying pack of hounds and stop to hunt a covey of partridge in a furrow. He stalked them, made a pass at one, missed, looked a bit sorry for himself, turned around, guaged the distance the hounds were away, and then disappeared in to a wood. This is not the behaviour of a poorly, stressed, about to die of shock, animal! Anecdotes aside, their is also substantial research to illustrate that pursued animals are far from stressed - this is just a natural part of their existence.

Homer is drawing an incorrect conclusion as are many other anti posters on this topic.

I don't have the motivation to respond to all the factually incorrect statements but will reiterate my offer to put anyone on the forum up at my place. Take them hunting, shooting, ferreting, rabbiting, lamping and so on so that you can then make your mind up based on facts, empirical knowledge and experience rather than animal rights propaganda, conjecture and blissful ignorance.

This is a genuine offer and I would also say that without exception, everyone who I have taken out into the field who was previously anti has changed their mind to become if not pro, then certainly ambivalent about country sports and the management of the countryside.


Cheers,


Snelly.

 

[bobmac]

this is just a natural part of their existence.

Really?
Being chased by a pack of hounds, 120 t**ts on horseback in hunting pink (it's red btw) and 500 others chasing behind?

but will reiterate my offer to put anyone on the forum up at my place. Take them hunting, shooting, ferreting, rabbiting, lamping and so on so that you can then make your mind up based on facts, empirical knowledge and experience rather than animal rights propaganda, conjecture and blissful ignorance.

Id rather poke my eyes out and play 36 holes with Jiffy

And don't try and change the subject to rabbiting, ferreting and contry-side management. We're discussing the hunting of a fox here.


I never have and never will agree with the concept of chasing down a defenceless fox in the manner you seem to enjoy.

I don't have the motivation to respond to all the factually incorrect statements

I had you down as an educated and intelligent person but my opinion has now changed.

And that is a factually correct statement.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I don't have the motivation to respond to all the factually incorrect statements

You clearly put this up originally knowing it would polarise opinion. If you can't be bothered the jog on and let others have their say. You have made your stance well known. However from my perspective it can't be part of any animals existance to be chased for hours by packs of dogs trained to rip the caught prey to bits and by idiots on horseback willing them on to do so.