Handicaps....what changes would you make?

[Deleted member 15344]

People do know there is the supplementary system which is in place to allow players to enter cards that go towards HC

If people are playing at least once a month then there is plenty of scope to play 10 HC rounds

It doesn't have to be in a comp

 

[Roops]

Don't see why you couldn't just put a card in for all rounds. Doesn't mean you have to play differently in practice rounds or not have gimmies. Just put the card in. I think that's how the US does it? You hear of mulligans and the like, but this doesn't stop them putting a card in. Obviously the comp cards will be played properly but if we just put all or most cards in it will soon become the norm.

This. I would be happy to put every card in as I think something sampled more often is going to be a truer reflection of the players ability. Wouldn't stop me going for shots, in fact I think you would be more likely to take shots on as if it goes wrong, well you haven't got to wait a month or to the next qualifier to recoup what you may have lost. It's change of mindset, more opportunities to get cut rather than less opportunity to play with freedom.

 

[duncan mackie]

I think if you went to 10 cards to keep your h/c you would halve the number with active handicaps. If you think most golfers play April-Sept, at best 1 comp round per weekend. Take off holidays, family events and bad weather then 10 comp rounds is really pushing it. Only the hardy and committed would remain active. At that point others would simply not bother playing in comps and you would have 20 players on a Saturday / Sunday medal. Not much of a pot to play for there.

I doubt I will play 10 comps this year and I have played quite a bit. I'd have no issue with going to 4 or 5 comps but more that that and you are pushing it.

For many clubs it would be way below halving! For others it probably wouldn't make much difference.

There are so many models out there you can't really look at it in isolation - you don't even need a (c) handicap to compete in most of the 'competition's' at ours; only the Trophy events.

However, IMO all open events of whatever nature should require a 'c' handicap - although it's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever of a relevant and accurate handicap!

 

[Slab]

What I already work with

Any witnessed round that is played to the rules of golf can be submitted for H/C

So you can still have your practice rounds or your rounds with gimmes/mulligans etc and have as many as you like... but regardless of social or comp, if it was played by the rules, off a measured course (any course, home or away) then count it towards handicap

 

[MendieGK]

The problem you will always have with handicaps is that it needs to work across all abilities. in your example i would have been cut from 2.8 to .7 on Sunday. effectively a 75% handicap cut.

That just wouldnt work.

Personally i think the handicap system works fine as it is, its the same for everyone.

It is not the same for every one. Handicap cuts are currently on a progressive scale depending you handicap. They could still keep this arrangement.

A cut is broadly consistent based on a % of handicap though. a 20 handicapper getting cut .4 is the same as a 5 handicapper getting cut .1 though.

 

[r0wly86]

Just curious rather than having a go but do you think this is sufficient to allow your handicap to match your ability?

I can only guess what my handicap would be if I'd only been playing 3 comps a year, much higher I suspect!

Well actually I don't currently have a handicap. As my old club lost mine and it was before the whole CDH thing so I am starting again with 3 rounds. I have only just got back into membership as moved from Devon to SW London and couldn't afford the costs down here, hence the 5 day membership.

I play regularly usually 3-4 times a week either a full 18 9 holes or on the range so I'm pretty consistentlt around the 9-10 over mark. If I could get 7 day then it wouldn't be much bother getting 10 comp rounds in, although I play rugby Autumn-Spring on Saturdays so Saturday comps would be useless to me for most of the year.

Just don't think 10 comp rounds if do-able for everyone and certainly not me. If it as 3 comp rounds and 7 additional supplementary rounds then no problems

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Perhaps my question highlights the different mindset we have when we have a qualifying card in our hands. If we were just used to always putting that card in would we really still have that fear factor/so precious feeling most of us expierience?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Really wasn't having a go, it's just that as someone who averages around 30 handicap qualifiers a year 3 cards just doesn't seem enough to keep a handicap accurate.


Out of curiosity, I've just checked my scores on the CDH for the last 3 years. I thought about picking 3 rounds a year at random to see what my handicap would be but decided it was better to see what would have happened if only my best 3 or worst 3 each year were counted.

In reality, at the start of 2014 my handicap was 6.5 and at the end of 2016 it was 2.3.


If I took only my best 3 rounds each year in 2014/15/16 my handicap at the end of 2016 would have been.... 2.3!
But if I took only the worst 3 that, unsurprisingly, means going up +0.3 each year so I'd have finished on.... 7.4.

Ok, that's rather unscientific as I've applied these all at once rather than adjusting my handicap each time and reflecting that on subsequent scores but it gives an idea, I think, and it suggests that only if my best scores were the counters would my handicap have kept up with where it currently is.

Picking any 3 at random each year would, therefore, mean I'd be somewhere between 2.3 and 7.4 but there are a lot more +0.1 rounds than cuts and "big" cuts are even rarer so I'd guess I'd be nearer the higher end of that range.... and doing rather nicely in handicap matchplay events!

 

[duncan mackie]

Perhaps my question highlights the different mindset we have when we have a qualifying card in our hands. If we were just used to always putting that card in would we really still have that fear factor/so precious feeling most of us expierience?

Hard to tell - I haven't felt that particular 'fear' for decades!

It clearly exists though. Personally I believe it's much more to do with creating personal expectations, and the inevitable issues that brings, than fear ie people clearly enter some comps with the intention of getting a handicap cut (to reflect there perception of their current capabilities normally) and end up trying too hard...and we all know the impact that has on a golf round.

 

[r0wly86]

No worries I know you weren't having a go, just trying to explain my situation.

Though obviously I would love to be able to play a lot more golf like I used to when I was a junior with no mortgage or wife, at the moment I just cannot commit the time or money to get 10 qualies in. Unless the club start doing mid-week evening/afternoon roll-ups.
Hopefully in the future I can get a 7 day, maybe when I move away from London.

So it's not thatI disagree with you, definitely the more comps you play in the better a reflection your hanicap will be. Just that if you are going to implement a change to the hanicap system then you will have to take into account people like my that 10 qualy rounds will be a stretch.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No worries I know you weren't having a go, just trying to explain my situation.

Though obviously I would love to be able to play a lot more golf like I used to when I was a junior with no mortgage or wife, at the moment I just cannot commit the time or money to get 10 qualies in. Unless the club start doing mid-week evening/afternoon roll-ups.
Hopefully in the future I can get a 7 day, maybe when I move away from London.

So it's not thatI disagree with you, definitely the more comps you play in the better a reflection your hanicap will be. Just that if you are going to implement a change to the hanicap system then you will have to take into account people like my that 10 qualy rounds will be a stretch.

You have just said you play 3 or 4 times a week - that's more than enough time to put in qualifying scores , you could have it done in one month

 

[FairwayDodger]

Just that if you are going to implement a change to the hanicap system then you will have to take into account people like my that 10 qualy rounds will be a stretch.

It boils down to this trade-off; encouraging/permitting more people to play competitions vs accuracy of handicaps. I suspect where individuals draw the line on that will be heavily influenced by their own circumstances.

 

[r0wly86]

You have just said you play 3 or 4 times a week - that's more than enough time to put in qualifying scores , you could have it done in one month

Yes I play 3-4 times a week. After work usually 9 holes with the occasional 18 and on the range. My club does not do any competitions at these times so they are not qualifying rounds. For me to enter a competition I would have to take time of work or pay the green fee to play in a Saturday comp, which I can't do during the rugby season anyway.

If you suggest that ontop of the 3 comp cards a year I have to enter 7 supplementary cards just from normal play, then yes I can do that and would be okay with it. If iot has to be in a comp then at the moment I can't do it

 

[r0wly86]

It boils down to this trade-off; encouraging/permitting more people to play competitions vs accuracy of handicaps. I suspect where individuals draw the line on that will be heavily influenced by their own circumstances.

Of course, as with everything that would be the case. I just know I would be a bit peeved after getting my handicap reintroduced from EGU to change the rules which basically makes it inactive again as I would imagine a lot of people in similar positions would be.

I guess there's nothing stopping individual clubs from saying certain competitions are only available to those with 10 cards in to stop the deliberate bandits just entering the biggies

 

[Crazyface]

Increasing the number is required cards to have a active H/C wouldn't be a problem for those who actually wished to have one. Those that are whingeing about it probably have no need to have an active H/C and only want one so they can say they've got one.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Of course, as with everything that would be the case. I just know I would be a bit peeved after getting my handicap reintroduced from EGU to change the rules which basically makes it inactive again as I would imagine a lot of people in similar positions would be.

I guess there's nothing stopping individual clubs from saying certain competitions are only available to those with 10 cards in to stop the deliberate bandits just entering the biggies

You'd also be pretty peeved playing a match against me off 7! :whoo:

 

[Crazyface]

Crumbs, just checked mine this season. I've only played in six.

 

[Old Skier]

Only change I would make is that instead of 3 cards to keep C status but make it 10

Other than that in my role I 99% of the Handicaps are reflected of people's abilities

Making every round count opens it up for people to manipulate their HC even more as well as you then need people to actually administer all these cards when in most clubs it's a voluntary role

I think most of those who control club handicaps properly would agree with this. If players have issues with the running of their clubs handicap they should approach their county union with their concerns.

 

[Old Skier]

Crumbs, just checked mine this season. I've only played in six.

Its only August, I have played in 17 include 6 at other courses. People will still make comments about handicaps no matter how many qualifiers you play.

 

[Old Skier]

Yes I play 3-4 times a week. After work usually 9 holes with the occasional 18 and on the range. My club does not do any competitions at these times so they are not qualifying rounds. For me to enter a competition I would have to take time of work or pay the green fee to play in a Saturday comp, which I can't do during the rugby season anyway.

If you suggest that ontop of the 3 comp cards a year I have to enter 7 supplementary cards just from normal play, then yes I can do that and would be okay with it. If iot has to be in a comp then at the moment I can't do it

You could always do supplementary cards and perhaps encourage your club to run 9 hole qualifiers.