rulefan
Tour Winner
Why should players be confused if they are told that PH is operating?
Handicapping rules April 2024
- Thread starter tobybarker
- Start date
D-S
Well-known member
I assume EG rolled back from their all ‘CHs will be unrounded’ stance is that this required ‘machine precision’ to calculate every Playing handicap allowance below 100% in all formats.
They then must have thought that the most played/used non competition playing handicap allowance was probably 90% for 4BB matchplay and 50% for Foursomes matchplay, so they then changed this and the way of calculating allowances half way through their information roll out with little or no announcement or explanation of the rationale for the change.
Why they didn’t change Greensomes, just for the sake of continuity, no one knows and they never gave the definitive reason for the change of mind.
wjemather
Well-known member
Yet presumably, they somehow manage to cope with the different rules that apply to stroke play and match play, medal play and Stableford and Par/Bogey, etc.; preferred lies & winter rules, and different local rules when they play away from home.
rulie
Head Pro
I believe that there is a difference between "coping with it" and doing it correctly.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Yes, very odd isn't it.
But true.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I think you have made a mistake of asking me to justify a statement I did not state as if I had made it.
Each player that is confused will have their own reason as to why they are confused.
I can not examine their minds and make firm conclusions. I do not possess that mind reading capability.
I can observe their confusion when it manifests itself into words.
100% CH sometimes and 95% CH sometimes rather than the same thing every time. That is the crux of the confusion, I feel.
Simply being told that today it is B and not A does not alleviate the confusion.
Simply being told that today it is A and not B does not alleviate the confusion.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Voyager EMH said:
Having one set of rules for club comp individual strokeplay and another set of rules for casual golf individual strokeplay is the cause of much confusion among golfers.
This I have observed.
Given that the thread was originally about rounding, I took it that was what you were referring to.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
That would have required me to travel into the future and back again.
I was clearly referring to past experience by observation. I can not have observed the future.
rulefan
Tour Winner
As the rounding/non-rounding was not scheduled to happen until 1 April how could you have observed 'past experience'? Presumably you were suggesting you had seen people confused about what to do. But before 1 April they didn't have to do anything.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I did not make any statement regarding having observed unrounded/rounded. (see post #55)
Your questions to me continue to be on the basis that I have made such a statement. This is a mistake on your part.
My statement was that there have been two rules in operation for individual strokeplay (100% CH or 95% CH) and that this has been the cause of some confusion.
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wjemather
Well-known member
Your confusion comes from thinking there are two rules when there are not.
There is a Course Handicap and then there are allowances for competitions to produce a Playing Handicap.
Before WHS, the allowance for individual strokeplay and matchplay was 100% but the same concept was still there. Those allowances were not always 100% and players managed just fine, so why the confusion now?
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I have no confusion.
You appear to be confused.
I have observed the confusion of others.
Before WHS players played individual strokeplay with their unchanging handicap in club comps and socially.
Since WHS they sometimes play individual strokeplay with 100% CH and sometimes with 95% CH.
I have observed players who are confused by this.
Why do you continue to deny the existence of my reported observations of others?
Am I the only person in the world who has witnessed players who are confused by the sometimes 100% CH and sometimes 95% CH concept? I would find that hard to believe.
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
This is a generalisation so not taking sides but I feel members do not understand because they are not interested and resist change and do not understand what his happening despite the best efforts of EG and Clubs.
I have played with 4 different groups during the last month mainly because when the course was open
1.My normal group, about 10/12, a few ex bobbies, compliant and want to abide by the Rules. They are struggling with how to work out the Handicaps from 1/4/24. Told them it will be done for them from 1/4/24 and casual play use the figures on the laminated board.
2. Only played a couple of times and use HI at present. Doubt anything will change.
3. Older group, had 95% for singles but found it complicated. Returned to full. Use preferred lies in the General Area when our rule is cut to Fairway height
4.Older group who play on different days to 3. Full handicap for everything for ease. If a team win they are cut 1 or 2 shots depending what the organiser thinks! There is a 15 capper playing off 5!
I do not think 2,3 and 4 will change from 1/4/24, 1 will.
You can take a horse to water...
I have played with 4 different groups during the last month mainly because when the course was open
1.My normal group, about 10/12, a few ex bobbies, compliant and want to abide by the Rules. They are struggling with how to work out the Handicaps from 1/4/24. Told them it will be done for them from 1/4/24 and casual play use the figures on the laminated board.
2. Only played a couple of times and use HI at present. Doubt anything will change.
3. Older group, had 95% for singles but found it complicated. Returned to full. Use preferred lies in the General Area when our rule is cut to Fairway height
4.Older group who play on different days to 3. Full handicap for everything for ease. If a team win they are cut 1 or 2 shots depending what the organiser thinks! There is a 15 capper playing off 5!
I do not think 2,3 and 4 will change from 1/4/24, 1 will.
You can take a horse to water...
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Wow!
Reporting observations of what players actually do.
You might be in for a few snide comments. Be prepared.
wjemather
Well-known member
I can certainly see how you create confusion in others.
rulefan
Tour Winner
I don't see why anyone should be confused. The principle of allowances was well established in the UHS prior to WHS
wjemather
Well-known member
I assume these are all casual play groups, so players can do whatever they agree amongst themselves (or the group organiser mandates). For simplicity and fairness that should just be full Course Handicap with no allowances.
I hope the organiser of group 4 has a mechanism for corresponding increases in handicaps too, otherwise everyone will eventually be a plus handicap!
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I am reminded of one group I joined. A players was cut 2 shots for a score of more than 40 points. They only got them back if they had 3 consecutive rounds of sub 30 points. I was cut the first time I played with them and never ever got the shots back. (H'cp of 6 at the time having to play to 4 for years).
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
But you do that far better than I do.
I don't do much at all other than observe what others do.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I don't see why anyone should be confused either.
I merely report that some people are confused by sometimes 95% CH and sometimes 100% CH for individual strokeplay.
Australia does not have this issue. Daily Handicap used in comps and social golf - 93% applied in both.
