• Thanks to each and every one of you for being part of the Golf Monthly community! We hope you have a joyous holiday season!

Handicap manipulation - how to address

upsidedown

Tour Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
5,782
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I therefore assume you are confused as to why there have been, and continue to be, so many articles on the divisive WHS?
Indeed because it worked well when we played under it in NZ for 6 years and works well at the club here where we're members . I do get the duboius cards folks put in to manipulate their handicaps by cheating is a problem that need addressing.
 

Thintowin

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2024
Messages
190
Visit site
Indeed because it worked well when we played under it in NZ for 6 years and works well at the club here where we're members . I do get the duboius cards folks put in to manipulate their handicaps by cheating is a problem that need addressing.
The previous system worked well here for many years.
 

Thintowin

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2024
Messages
190
Visit site
It worked well for a minority; not so much for everyone else (including most higher handicappers); and for many (e.g. declining golfers and those not playing in competitions frequently) it really didn't work at all.
It did. Those groups you identified were managed through a competent M&H committee. Now M&H is swamped with just about every group.
 

Thintowin

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2024
Messages
190
Visit site
It worked well for a minority; not so much for everyone else (including most higher handicappers); and for many (e.g. declining golfers and those not playing in competitions frequently) it really didn't work at all.
If the aim was to help higher handicappers and declining golfers to go up without needing M&H to intervene then they could have just increased the 0.1 upwards adjustment for those higher categories.
 

Colin L

Tour Winner
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
5,453
Location
Edinburgh
Visit site
That was was for 'club handicaps' which came in before cats 5 and 6 were introduced.

As per WJE all new players handicaps were based upon the max of 54.

We had to do a review of all players with a handicap of 28 and revise their handicaps accordingly. Single biggest increase was a male player who was increased to 40.

We did a simple thing of treat them the same as new player and give them a revised handicap based upon their best 3 cards in the preceding year.
And, I presume, the players with a handicap of 36.
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
4,043
Location
Bristol
Visit site
If the aim was to help higher handicappers and declining golfers to go up without needing M&H to intervene then they could have just increased the 0.1 upwards adjustment for those higher categories.
There are tweaks to things like reductions, increases and buffer zones that could have been made to the old system (along with adopting Slope) to improve it and make it fairer, but there would still have been issues and it still wouldn't have produced handicaps comparable to other systems around the world.
 

Thintowin

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2024
Messages
190
Visit site
There are tweaks to things like reductions, increases and buffer zones that could have been made to the old system (along with adopting Slope) to improve it and make it fairer, but there would still have been issues and it still wouldn't have produced handicaps comparable to other systems around the world.
Surely the slope part, and therefore course handicap calculation, of WHS is all that's required to make handicap indexes work across the world.

The calculation for the HI should take into account regional differences. It does not. In Florida and Australia players can play 12 months of the year and so their form is different to those who play in less favourable winter conditions.

WHS could be fixed by it being a bit more flexible.
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
4,043
Location
Bristol
Visit site
I therefore assume you are confused as to why there have been, and continue to be, so many articles on the divisive WHS?
Similar chatter (including calls to scrap it) in magazines and newspapers persisted for decades after the initial introduction of the previous system. We're only 4 years into this one.
 

Thintowin

Active member
Joined
Dec 20, 2024
Messages
190
Visit site
Similar chatter (including calls to scrap it) in magazines and newspapers persisted for decades after the initial introduction of the previous system. We're only 4 years into this one.
I was around for that previous change and I don't believe the level of annoyance, if there was any, was significant. 1980s, 1984?
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
4,043
Location
Bristol
Visit site
Surely the slope part, and therefore course handicap calculation, of WHS is all that's required to make handicap indexes work across the world.

The calculation for the HI should take into account regional differences. It does not. In Florida and Australia players can play 12 months of the year and so their form is different to those who play in less favourable winter conditions.

WHS could be fixed by it being a bit more flexible.
No. The entire process is required, not just Slope (i.e. the rating system, Score Differential calculation, Handicap Index calculation, etc.).

They have different active and inactive seasons across the US, and even within the same state. The Handicap Index is a measure of demonstrated ability, not form.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
33,571
Visit site
No, that would mean I actually have to visit a golf course to enter a score! ;);):whistle: (if you see what I mean!)

Hey, this thread has meandered through all sorts of stuff.

Regardless of handicap system in place, there needs to be effective monitoring of scores submitted.

Some Clubs are on top if it, some are not. A massive increase in GP Cards makes it harder to police. That's just a fact of life, it's simple maths. More cards for clubs not able to review effectively will make it worse, not better.

Hence, don't be surprised when some Clubs start implementing measures to circumvent a problem (perceived or otherwise) The handicapping system in place, the % allowances used etc are separate issues.
We are doing something…apparently GP cards entered using the MyEG app do not show on a players record in iG (the system my club uses) and so the club has issues monitoring number of competition rounds in current 20 (there being a criteria for entry around that for some comps). These rounds are included in a players WHS HI calc, they just don’t show on iG - apparently. We are requesting (nicely) that members do not use the MyEG app for recording GP rounds, instead use the iG app or if poss a home clubhouse terminal.
 
Last edited:

Imurg

The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
37,939
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Visit site
The Handicap Index is a measure of demonstrated ability, not form.
That might be what the book says but I'd argue that your index is a measure of form if you put regular cards in.
Back in early October I " demonstrated my ability" by shooting a score differential of 2.3 and my index was 5.1
By the end of October my form had slipped and my index had risen to 6.6.
Doesn't that show "form" rather than "demonstrated ability "?
Using demonstrated ability I should be much lower......
 
Top