Handicap manipulation - how to address

[Dunesman]

Seems like an awful lot of the complaining posts on this matter are more about the system as opposed to those who choose to manipulate the system and so to cheat their fellow golfers. The problem is therefore the cheats and how a club manages them - not the system.

How do you address manipulation? Though I am sure the thought has already been discussed, but if manipulation in the context of club members comes from rounds played away from a players home course can a club simply not apply a constraint on entry to a club comp that requires a player to have a majority, maybe a significant majority, of their 20 rounds having been played at their home course. A 2nd constraint could be that a lower number, say 6 to 8, of the 20 must be competition rounds played over their home course. Clubs can always grant exceptions if players make reasonable arguement for their not having met these constraints.

When the system facilitates easier cheating, and gives you more bang per cheat, then the system is a factor. The old system was less vulnerable to manipulation. As with other facets of WHS, that it was more vulnerable was not publicised prior to the changeover.

 

[clubchamp98]

That's not quite what the WHS rules & EG guidance say.

Are you saying the club is not following EG guidance by preventing score submission in winter when the course is measured, rated and not in exceptionally poor condition?

I’m not saying anything it’s not my club.

If it’s in conforming condition and length why not have GP cards.?
Isn’t that the way WHS works ?

 

[rulie]

Seems like an awful lot of the complaining posts on this matter are more about the system as opposed to those who choose to manipulate the system and so to cheat their fellow golfers. The problem is therefore the cheats and how a club manages them - not the system.

How do you address manipulation? Though I am sure the thought has already been discussed, but if manipulation in the context of club members comes from rounds played away from a players home course can a club simply not apply a constraint on entry to a club comp that requires a player to have a majority, maybe a significant majority, of their 20 rounds having been played at their home course. A 2nd constraint could be that a lower number, say 6 to 8, of the 20 must be competition rounds played over their home course. Clubs can always grant exceptions if players make reasonable arguement for their not having met these constraints.

That’s an excellent post that returns to the initial subject of this thread- how to address handicap manipulation (and, presumably, handicap manipulators).
If someone were to come to this thread in anticipation of finding some answers and guidance, what would those answers be?
Let’s hear your top three actions that will address handicap manipulation and handicap manipulators, and maybe your ideas on who should be responsible for taking those actions.
Keep it positive, simple, and clear.
(Maybe in another 500 posts we’ll have some answers! )

 

[Dunesman]

I must be getting duff info, I thought the maximum handicap changed with the introduction of the WHS, in early 2020 and was adopted in the UK&I in November that year.

No, 54 came in well before WHS. About 2018 or so.

 

[Thintowin]

No, 54 came in well before WHS. About 2018 or so.

Maybe that's true but most clubs didn't entertain it. WHS threw it into focus.

 

[clubchamp98]

When the system facilitate easier cheater, and gives you more bang per cheat, then the system is a factor. The old system was less vulnerable to manipulation. As with other facets of WHS, that is was more vulnerable was not publicised prior to the changeover.

Exactly.
I think in the USA there’s not as much competition golf as in the UK.
So nobody gives a damm about other peoples handicap.
That’s totally the opposite in the UK as bandits are hoovering up all the prizes so it affects other players.

 

[Thintowin]

When the system facilitate easier cheater, and gives you more bang per cheat, then the system is a factor. The old system was less vulnerable to manipulation. As with other facets of WHS, that is was more vulnerable was not publicised prior to the changeover.

Agree entirely. The system is cause of the issues around manipulation. Trying to say it always went on is just not true. It may have gone on in extreme cases but not on the scale we see now and it is perceived as being rife. Many are doing it without thinking too hard about it because it's a free-for-all handicap system.

Some are even doing it to prove a point in the hope it will be changed

 

[Dunesman]

That’s an excellent post that returns to the initial subject of this thread- how to address handicap manipulation (and, presumably, handicap manipulators).
If someone were to come to this thread in anticipation of finding some answers and guidance, what would those answers be?
Let’s hear your top three actions that will address handicap manipulation and handicap manipulators, and maybe your ideas on who should be responsible for taking those actions.
Keep it positive, simple, and clear.
(Maybe in another 500 posts we’ll have some answers! )

1) Only competition cards count for competition handicaps.
2) Maximum handicap increase of 1 shot within a rolling 12 month period in the algorythm. Flag to committee to review if a hidden 2 shot potential increase is reached.
3) A separate non-competition handicap. GP cards, swindles, an openly cheats charter handicap. Those who like that kind of thing can swim in that shark infested pool.

Those who want to play in a more protected competition pool, are well insulated from the sharks.

 

[clubchamp98]

That’s an excellent post that returns to the initial subject of this thread- how to address handicap manipulation (and, presumably, handicap manipulators).
If someone were to come to this thread in anticipation of finding some answers and guidance, what would those answers be?
Let’s hear your top three actions that will address handicap manipulation and handicap manipulators, and maybe your ideas on who should be responsible for taking those actions.
Keep it positive, simple, and clear.
(Maybe in another 500 posts we’ll have some answers! )

Only 1 GP card per week.
Best 6 out of 20 of which only 6 can be GP cards.
Anyone caught manipulating their handicap banned from comp golf for 12 months //second offence lifetime ban.

 

[nickjdavis]

I could go on but i've got some wet paint drying I've got watch over.
I'm out

mmm...we have heard that before.

 

[Dunesman]

Some are even doing it to prove a point in the hope it will be changed

I have been thinking of doing that, sort of. I have yet to put in a GP card. But I know my handicap would rise significantly. And I would have an even greater chance of winning comps than my 20 already gives me. On the other hand, I dont like rising above 20, and always feel better about my golf when I get it down to 18, which has an old school shot-a-hole feel to it even if that doesnt quite apply anymore. But would be interested to see where GP cards would get me, and could put in 30-40 per summer in addition to the 20-25 comp cards that my handicap has always been based on. I guess I would get out to about 24 or 25.

 

[wjemather]

Maybe that's true but most clubs didn't entertain it. WHS threw it into focus.

Clubs didn't have a choice. It wasn't optional.

 

[wjemather]

I’m not saying anything it’s not my club.

If it’s in conforming condition and length why not have GP cards.?
Isn’t that the way WHS works ?

Score submission should only be suspended in limited circumstances, including when the course is in exceptionally poor condition, unacceptable local rules are in effect, or play is not over a measured and rated course (although holes may be closed and there may be up to 2 temporary greens).

 

[Colin L]

Agree entirely. The system is cause of the issues around manipulation. Trying to say it always went on is just not true. It may have gone on in extreme cases but not on the scale we see now and it is perceived as being rife. Many are doing it without thinking too hard about it because it's a free-for-all handicap system.

Some are even doing it to prove a point in the hope it will be changed

Yet more, or rather repeated assertions without evidence.

You can only cheat by submitting a false score. That is a dishonest action by the individual for which he/she bears the whole responsibility. It has been more than adequately pointed out that clubs have it within their powers to impose preventative measures.

 

[KenL]

Are you, like @Thintowin assuming everyone who joins a club does so to play comps? I would hazard a guess many do not.

Look at membership numbers versus comp entries. One will be much larger than the other at many if not most clubs.

800 or so people can’t enter a comp on a single day.
At many clubs the entry is full for the comps.

 

[KenL]

3/4 was designed to give the low handicapper a substantial advantage…

No it wasn’t, it was to try and make it fair in hcp match play.

 

[wjemather]

No it wasn’t, it was to try and make it fair in hcp match play.

That depends on what you consider to be fair. Pre-WHS handicapping, particularly in GB&I, was always designed to favour the lower handicapper, as it was felt that better players should have an advantage and potential for exceptional scoring should be strongly mitigated against - which was considered fair.

Unfortunately, we now have the situation where even less than exceptional scores are locked upon with suspicion, and that is partly because people have yet to adjust to a different balance of equity and are mostly unaware it has significantly changed.

 

[Thintowin]

That depends on what you mean by fair. Pre-WHS handicapping, particularly in GB&I, was always designed to favour the lower handicapper, as it was felt that better players should have an advantage and potential for exceptional scoring should be strongly mitigated against.

Unfortunately, we now have the situation where even less than exceptional scores are locked upon with suspicion, and that is partly because people have yet to adjust to a different balance of equity and are mostly unaware it has significantly changed.

Balance of equity?

Played a match last year and had no chance against a chap off 17. He used to be 8 and told me his game is no different. I looked at his 8 scores afterwards. 24% of the holes were doubles or worse. That mirrored the match, roughly 2 up for each 6 holes group. Beat me 4/3. I never stood a chance despite playing quite well.

Hits the ball well enough to be no more than 10 but WHS, and its clever people, know better.

 

[rulefan]

No it wasn’t, it was to try and make it fair in hcp match play.

As you will have seen in post #561, the authorities recognised that 3/4 was in fact biased too far. Even full difference still had a bias. To some extent Slope has evened it out.

 

[doublebogey7]

You've never heard anyone say ''I was due a cut today if I didn't have a couple of blow up holes''?


It doesn't matter how many times you repeat that, it doesn't make it true.

You are right saying it doesn't but the facts do.