Handicap manipulation - how to address

[clubchamp98]

No, I'm suggesting 3 x triple bogeys and 15 pars is a different golfer than 9 pars and 9 bogeys

Same in Stableford it’s just three bad holes can make that up on the six shot holes.

 

[wjemather]

Poor them so you disadvantage me.?

A competent committee seeking to minimise the unavoidable advantage/disadvantage for everyone: limits entries, implements divisions, and/or runs separate competitions for different handicap ranges.

 

[bobmac]

From the SLGA pre WHS. This was consistent with a CONGU study for which I am searching my files.


The SLGA conducted a survey of club ladies’ singles match play events.
42 clubs contributed the full results of a total of 73 tournaments covering 1,351 matches that
involved 1 or more strokes being conceded / received. Full handicap difference applied in all
matches.
The survey showed that:
• Overall 59.1% of the individual matches were won by the lower handicapped player
i.e. even when conceding full handicap difference the lower handicap players
prevailed more often than not.
• This effect was even more pronounced in the matches that were won by a large
margin i.e. 6&5 or greater; in these games the lower handicapped player won 71% of
the time.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean but it does raise some questions...
1. Why survey only 1.5% of British clubs?
2. Why only examine ladies results?
3. Why refer to h/cap range as higher and lower, not any specific numbers?

''Overall 59.1% of the individual matches were won by the lower handicapped player''
That could mean a 32 h/cap beats 36 h/cap

 

[clubchamp98]

A competent committee seeking to minimise the unavoidable advantage/disadvantage for everyone: limits entries, implements divisions, and/or runs separate competitions for different handicap ranges.

I play in club competition where if I win my name goes up on the board in gold letters.

I have never entered a divisional competition.

If what you say is nessesary then the handicap system is unfit for purpose.

But still dosnt answer the question “ why am I being disadvantaged “?

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean but it does raise some questions...
1. Why survey only 1.5% of British clubs?
2. Why only examine ladies results?
3. Why refer to h/cap range as higher and lower, not any specific numbers?

''Overall 59.1% of the individual matches were won by the lower handicapped player''
That could mean a 32 h/cap beats 36 h/cap

It’s called using stats to fill your argument.

Stats can tell you anything that’s why we have this mess.

 

[bobmac]

The maximum handicap was increased from 24 up to 28, then 36 and then 54 long before WHS.

Really?

 

[wjemather]

I play in club competition where if I win my name goes up on the board in gold letters.

I have never entered a divisional competition.

If what you say is nessesary then the handicap system is unfit for purpose.

But still dosnt answer the question “ why am I being disadvantaged “?

Your club should look at revising its terms of competition if field size and composition are causing a genuine issue.
Mitigation would be necessary under any handicap system - no handicap system is possible that isn't constrained by the same fundamental limitations created by the erratic scoring of golfers regardless of how good they are.

 

[bobmac]

@ wjemather, do you have your settings showing you're offline on purpose or by mistake?

 

[wjemather]

Really?

Yes.

 

[clubchamp98]

Your club should look at revising its terms of competition if field size and composition are causing a genuine issue.
Mitigation would be necessary under any handicap system - no handicap system is possible that isn't constrained by the same fundamental limitations created by the erratic scoring of golfers regardless of how good they are.

But why has it been set up to discriminate against low handicaps?
Havnt had an answer yet!

We get 200+ in comps in summer.

 

[wjemather]

But why has it been set up to discriminate against low handicaps?
Havnt had an answer yet!

We get 200+ in comps in summer.

I'm not in a position to know why your competition committee is not mitigating the issue for you.
Have you asked them?

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm not in a position to know why your competition committee is not mitigating the issue for you.
Have you asked them?

Yes they are following guidelines of 95%

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Yes....and the handicap system catches up with them quite rapidly. I get no pleasure from playing a chomper that puts no effort into improving and losing because I'm giving them an obscene amount of shots and my view is quite common amongst low handicappers.

What do you play off?

And again, how do you know how much effort someone is putting into their game?

I know a fair few people who get more than one shot on some holes who put a hell of a lot more time and effort into their game than I do.

 

[wjemather]

Yes they are following guidelines of 95%

That's the answer to a different question. Why no mitigation for the imbalance of equity caused by those very large field sizes?

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Nope, but truth be told I've enough County Seniors scratch golf to keep me amused in the summer and as we know organising K/O is aright pain at times

This is 95% - 99% the reason a lot don't enter K/O's
Not the thought of being beaten by someone who doesn't go up the range every five minutes
Or I might be drawn against someone who's is capable of shooting the lights out

 

[3 jabber]

What do you play off?

And again, how do you know how much effort someone is putting into their game?

I know a fair few people who get more than one shot on some holes who put a hell of a lot more time and effort into their game than I do.

2.1

I've asked them.

 

[rulefan]

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean but it does raise some questions...
1. Why survey only 1.5% of British clubs?
2. Why only examine ladies results?
3. Why refer to h/cap range as higher and lower, not any specific numbers?

''Overall 59.1% of the individual matches were won by the lower handicapped player''
That could mean a 32 h/cap beats 36 h/cap

1) SLGA is Scottish
2) SLGA is Ladies
3) The post I responded to was about lower & higher

Yes it does

 

[rulefan]

''An unfair allowance for higher handicappers'' was the finding of a committee made up predominantly by people with higher handicaps.

Really? Do you know just who these people were?

 

[rulefan]

Really?

Do you disagree?

 

[jim8flog]

Really?

ditto from me Yes
They came in 2018 and the Cats were increased to 5 and 6.