Dunesman
Active member
I do think it was the case, though by how much, I dont know.
Lower hcs had an advantage even without any multiplier. The 3/4 just increased it.
Handicap manipulation - how to address
- Thread starter Teebs
- Start date
Lower hcs had an advantage even without any multiplier. The 3/4 just increased it.
Thintowin
Member
In the old days, and also today, a scratch handicapper didn't deviate more than one shot either side of par. Previously, and even more so today, the 18 handicapper often deviates more than 1 shot either side of bogey.
They understood stuff back then. Not like the halfwits behind WHS!
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
Sorry what? Please explain.
bobmac
Major Champion
Also, in the old days just say you were playing in a medal on a course par 72, SSS 72 off 9
You score level par for 15 holes but also have 3 treble bogeys....81
That means no change to your h/cap
In match play a scratch player giving that person 9 shots would just be wrong hence 3/4s
wjemather
Well-known member
Even the very best and most consistent golfers vary much more than one stroke either way, even when playing well.
And (except for ndb adjustments) par/bogey are irrelevant to handicaps.
wjemather
Well-known member
Since 1997, with Stableford adjustments, it would depend on which holes the triples came on. It could result in a 0.6 reduction (or more depending on CSS) for a cat 2 player.
This kind of reasoning (based on an extreme premise that is unlikely to happen in the real world) was shown to be faulty; hence the change. And, despite all their complaining, low handicappers still won more often than not.
3 jabber
Well-known member
I'm a low capper, I work hard on my game. I don't enter any handicap knockouts now as the thought of losing to someone that doesn't put any effort into improving does not really sit well with me.
bobmac
Major Champion
You've never heard anyone say ''I was due a cut today if I didn't have a couple of blow up holes''?
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat that, it doesn't make it true.
Thintowin
Member
This is an all too familiar story since WHS. The fun has been removed. Everyone loses out. A 15 handicapper would often get a thrill playing a 3 handicapper and, even in a loss, would learn a lot from the match.
Have I mentioned just how much of a nonsense WHS is? Maybe, but I will say it again. It's also likely to send the game into a decline if it carries on putting proficient golfers off from competing.
upsidedown
Tour Winner
As a low handicapper I gave up single Handicap K/o long before WHS 
bobmac
Major Champion
Not only from competing but from being members at all.
What's the point in spending £1000 joining fee and £1500 subs, only then to be told ''as a 3 h/cap, you wont have much chance in our comps as they are all net. However, you can always enter the scratch opens at other clubs and they're only £40 a time.''
Imagine if that was a 20 h/cap who had just joined and paid out £2500 to be told you wont have much chance in our comps as they are all scratch but you can always enter the nett opens at other clubs and they're only £40 a time.
bobmac
Major Champion
Has the WHS not encouraged you to start playing in them again?As a low handicapper I gave up single Handicap K/o long before WHS
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
How do you know whether someone has put any effort into their game?
WorldHandicapSystem
Member
Are you, like @Thintowin assuming everyone who joins a club does so to play comps? I would hazard a guess many do not.
Look at membership numbers versus comp entries. One will be much larger than the other at many if not most clubs.
Thintowin
Member
I do wonder what the long term effect will be. WHS has certainly knocked the stuffing out of a section of the membership that people would have expected to be lifetime golfers and members. Take the competition aspect away and they could well reconsider. Especially as fees are going up year on year at many clubs and things are getting tighter for a lot of people.
R&A, especially Slumbers, points at a wave of growth in terms of registered players for now.
D-S
Well-known member
I don’t quite understand this. People who start putting a lot of effort at improving their game can and do make rapid improvements - these are exactly the sort of people who are tricky to play against because any system will struggle to keep up with their improvement. As such they are the last people you should want to compete against.
wjemather
Well-known member
Are you claiming a round of 15 pars and 3 triples from a 9 handicapper is not "unlikely to happen in the real world"?
bobmac
Major Champion
No, I'm suggesting 3 x triple bogeys and 15 pars is a different golfer than 9 pars and 9 bogeys
Thintowin
Member
Point perfectly made.
If he has those triples on shot holes he gets 9 shots. In a match he loses those holes, obviously, but has 6 holes that he wins.
Who came up with this system?
bobmac
Major Champion
Precisely
5,4,4 versus 4,4,9 is still all square, but in a medal it's 13 v 17...hence 3/4s difference
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