Handicap manipulation - how to address

[rulefan]

3/4 was designed to give the low handicapper a substantial advantage. Stableford adjustments increased that advantage as it mostly reduced higher handicaps. The allowance was changed to full because that was much fairer than 3/4, but it still afforded an advantage to the lower handicapper.

From
CONGU HANDICAPPING SYSTEM
“Myths & Misconceptions”


• Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association,
English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full versus three-quarters difference in handicap.

• All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.

• A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:
¾ Difference
Matches won by lower handicap player 61% higher cap 39%
Full Diff
Matches won by lower handicap player 55% higher cap 45%

From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap player retains an advantage.

 

[Thintowin]

What statistical evidence do you have for any of that?

This a just single illustration of what I have commonly seen in elite tournaments I have refereed at. Two years ago, in the first round of a 54 hole stroke play competition a player had a birdie putt on the 18th for a 59. Sadly she didn't make it and recorded a 60, 12 under par. In the second round she scored 78, 6 over par. I forget her third round score but she recovered enough to win.

How many of our world class professionals have come in sometimes with with scores well over par? All of them, perhaps?

How about engaging with the actual system and give us the benefit of your understanding of the mechanics of and knowledge of the mass of statistics which underpinned its development, a development which was carried out, I can assure you, by some rather clever folk? Continuing to make unsubstantiated assertions won't win you any converts.

You took my post out of context there. Play a match against a low guy and they'll par mostly. Play a match against an 18 and they won't bogey mostly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Seems like an awful lot of the complaining posts on this matter are more about the system as opposed to those who choose to manipulate the system and so to cheat their fellow golfers. The problem is therefore the cheats and how a club manages them - not the system.

How do you address manipulation? Though I am sure the thought has already been discussed, but if manipulation in the context of club members comes from rounds played away from a players home course can a club simply not apply a constraint on entry to a club comp that requires a player to have a majority, maybe a significant majority, of their 20 rounds having been played at their home course. A 2nd constraint could be that a lower number, say 6 to 8, of the 20 must be competition rounds played over their home course. Clubs can always grant exceptions if players make reasonable arguement for their not having met these constraints.

 

[clubchamp98]

Seems like an awful lot of the complaining posts on this matter are more about the system as opposed to those who choose to manipulate the system and so to cheat their fellow golfers. The problem is therefore the cheats and how a club manages them - not the system.

How do you address manipulation? Though I am sure the thought has already been discussed, but if manipulation in the context of club members comes from rounds played away from a players home course can a club simply not apply a constraint on entry to a club comp that requires a player to have a majority, maybe a significant majority, of their 20 rounds having been played at their home course. A 2nd constraint could be that a lower number, say 6 to 8, of the 20 must be competition rounds played over their home course. Clubs can always grant exceptions if players make reasonable arguement for their not having met these constraints.

If your a member at more than one club or your course Cant or won’t do GP cards over winter and you play away courses.
Your 20 could in theory be all away GP cards.

Extreme yes but golfers are clever.

 

[Colin L]

You took my post out of context there. Play a match against a low guy and they'll par mostly. Play a match against an 18 and they won't bogey mostly.

Oh dear. The old "taken out of context' swerve. What's in match play that makes for a consistency that is patently not found in stroke play at any level?

 

[rulie]

From
CONGU HANDICAPPING SYSTEM
“Myths & Misconceptions”


• Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association,
English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full versus three-quarters difference in handicap.

• All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.

• A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:
¾ Difference
Matches won by lower handicap player 61% higher cap 39%
Full Diff
Matches won by lower handicap player 55% higher cap 45%

From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap player retains an advantage.

Are those bullet points "Myths & Misconceptions"?

 

[Thintowin]

Seems like an awful lot of the complaining posts on this matter are more about the system as opposed to those who choose to manipulate the system and so to cheat their fellow golfers. The problem is therefore the cheats and how a club manages them - not the system.

How do you address manipulation? Though I am sure the thought has already been discussed, but if manipulation in the context of club members comes from rounds played away from a players home course can a club simply not apply a constraint on entry to a club comp that requires a player to have a majority, maybe a significant majority, of their 20 rounds having been played at their home course. A 2nd constraint could be that a lower number, say 6 to 8, of the 20 must be competition rounds played over their home course. Clubs can always grant exceptions if players make reasonable arguement for their not having met these constraints.

That's ignoring the problem that many think the system is so rubbish that they have little or no respect for it. We all can manipulate if we want now.

 

[bobmac]

The maximum handicap was increased from 24 up to 28, then 36 and then 54 long before WHS.

I must be getting duff info, I thought the maximum handicap changed with the introduction of the WHS, in early 2020 and was adopted in the UK&I in November that year.

 

[Colin L]

C

I must be getting duff info, I thought the maximum handicap changed with the introduction of the WHS, in early 2020 and was adopted in the UK&I in November that year.

Prior to the WHS, CONGU introduced the "Club Handicap" intended only for club golf with a maximum of 54. It never took on at my club and yet I remember a few of my contemporaries saying when the WHS started how great it was to get a handicap that could help them win something at last, having been stuck on 28 for quite a few years, including the time when they could have had this club handicap.

 

[rulie]

If your a member at more than one club or your course Cant or won’t do GP cards over winter and you play away courses.
Your 20 could in theory be all away GP cards.

Extreme yes but golfers are clever.

I agree that regular golfers are clever. Seems that this thread is more about unscrupulous cheaters than regular golfers.

 

[bobmac]

C

Prior to the WHS, CONGU introduced the "Club Handicap" intended only for club golf with a maximum of 54. It never took on at my club and yet I remember a few of my contemporaries saying when the WHS started how great it was to get a handicap that could help them win something at last, having been stuck on 28 for quite a few years, including the time when they could have had this club handicap.

So, more of a Local Handicap than an official club handicap then.

 

[wjemather]

I must be getting duff info, I thought the maximum handicap changed with the introduction of the WHS, in early 2020 and was adopted in the UK&I in November that year.

54 was first introduced as maximum for disability handicaps, later extended to "club" handicaps, before becoming the official maximum a few years prior to WHS.

There were so few male players with handicaps above 36 (upwards movement under UHS being very slow, and many of the affected players having long abandoned completions and hope of maintaining their handicaps) that the change largely went unnoticed until WHS came in and the recalculation of all handicaps created a few (but not many) more.

 

[bobmac]

I could go on but i've got some wet paint drying I've got watch over.
I'm out

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If your a member at more than one club or your course Cant or won’t do GP cards over winter and you play away courses.
Your 20 could in theory be all away GP cards.

Extreme yes but golfers are clever.

In which case you go to the club competitions secretary and state your case…and when the comp secretary says ‘tough but unfortunate…the terms of entry for the comp requires that (such as) 6 rounds in the 12 months to date must be competition rounds played at this club’. Well…you have to accept that thems the terms of entry…terms that can be ascertained by any member reading the Competition Handbook (or equivalent) that all clubs will have.

And it is never clever to cheat your fellows - whether through manipulation or other means.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's ignoring the problem that many think the system is so rubbish that they have little or no respect for it. We all can manipulate if we want now.

There is much in life that I can do if I so choose, but I have respect for my own values and a sense of decency to others that stops me. If others wish to manipulate and cheat then they can do so, and they can suffer the consequences when the truth is out.

 

[rulefan]

I must be getting duff info, I thought the maximum handicap changed with the introduction of the WHS, in early 2020 and was adopted in the UK&I in November that year.

CONGU 2018
The CONGU handicap limit of 28[36] has been removed and replaced with 54 for both men and women thus aligning with other handicapping systems around the world. Handicapping software will automatically adjust handicaps past the current limits into Category5 for men and Category 6 for men and women when scores are outside the Buffer Zone as of 1st January 2018.


In the same document CONGU also said:

There is more potential for manipulation and abuse by removing the limit on submitting Supplementary Scores and it is recommended that clubs remind players that ‘Supplementary Score returns may be subject to action under CONGU® Clause 21.11/23B if malpractice is suspected.’

 

[Colin L]

So, more of a Local Handicap than an official club handicap then.

No. Local but a CONGU handicap and later, as Rulefan has observed, absorbed into the normal CONGU handicap by extending the range to 54.

How's the paint doing?

 

[clubchamp98]

I agree that regular golfers are clever. Seems that this thread is more about unscrupulous cheaters than regular golfers.

Well cheaters are regular golfers as well.

 

[clubchamp98]

In which case you go to the club competitions secretary and state your case…and when the comp secretary says ‘tough but unfortunate…the terms of entry for the comp requires that (such as) 6 rounds in the 12 months to date must be competition rounds played at this club’. Well…you have to accept that thems the terms of entry…terms that can be ascertained by any member reading the Competition Handbook (or equivalent) that all clubs will have.

And it is never clever to cheat your fellows - whether through manipulation or other means.

But WHS says to put as many cards in as you can.
The club says you can’t.

Big argument to be had.

 

[wjemather]

But WHS says to put as many cards in as you can.
The club says you can’t.

Big argument to be had.

That's not quite what the WHS rules & EG guidance say.

Are you saying the club is not following EG guidance by preventing score submission in winter when the course is measured, rated and not in exceptionally poor condition?