Bamberdele2.0
Active member
Is there a conflict of interest with the club secretary being on the handicap committee?
Or is this a normal thing that happens at most clubs
Or is this a normal thing that happens at most clubs
Handicap Committee / Club Secretary
- Thread starter Bamberdele2.0
- Start date
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Its a committee - theres no problem having a few committe members as part of it. Probably makes it easier to have quick discussions at the end of committee meetings about handicaps that may need adjustments etc?
Backache
Assistant Pro
What would the conflict of interest be?
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
What would the conflict of interest be?
Secretary being influenced / pressured into making adjustments by long standing members.
This isn’t in regards to myself but a regular PP who is about the same level as me who shot a round not likely to repeat anytime soon and got cut 5 shots. I’d say 50 cards have been put in prior to this adjustment.
Seems that the secretary at our club holds all the cards into final decisions being made.
Just trying to make sense of how it works at other clubs
Backache
Assistant Pro
Any member of the commitee could be influenced by other members I'm not quite sure why the secretary should be more susceptible I would think it would be more to do the character of the individual than other positions they may hold.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Its an exceptional score but the club are more than entitled to enter that and give him a cut. Why wouldnt you want the handicap cut?
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
The individual has lost a bit of interest / bit down because he cannot score anywhere near his cut. Being cut 5 shots in one go after a round he isn’t likely to repeat for a long time is a bit OTT, in my opinion.
I’ve been cut accordingly and more than happy with it (I suppose that’s the aim of the game) but 5 shots in 1 go when he’s already had 50 cards in doesn’t feel validated.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Can I ask what his handicap was before?
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
Was around 16.4 index down to mid 11.
I’m one of his regular PP’s.
He was struggling to break 90 when I played with him. Shot 82 out of nowhere. Course rating is 137.
He’s rattled
I’m one of his regular PP’s.
He was struggling to break 90 when I played with him. Shot 82 out of nowhere. Course rating is 137.
He’s rattled
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Id take a 5 handicap cut as motivation to get better. I know handicaps are now an average of your best 8 in 20 and no longer "you on a good day" but theres no problem having a healthy medium?
If he shoots high scores again, the handicap will rise again
Fact of the matter is, hes got the ability to do it, and hes finally put it all together. Why couldnt he repeat it? Is he 70+ and unlikely to or 25-45 and highly likely to keep improving?
Backache
Assistant Pro
Personally I'd be delighted to be cut single by five strokes as I would then be single figures I can see why someone isnt. The decision may or may not be a good one , but I feel it is down to whether the person is capable of exercising good judgement rather than having a conflict of interest.
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
so in hindsight - if I have 1 good round out of nowhere there is a very strong chance the handicap committee will get involved and I will get cut something similar.
He is a few years younger than me but our abilities are mirrored.
If that’s the case then it feels as tho we are are likely to be discriminated against because of our age… just my opinion
He is a few years younger than me but our abilities are mirrored.
If that’s the case then it feels as tho we are are likely to be discriminated against because of our age… just my opinion
SteveW86
Head Pro
Do you know what his scores are like taking the best 8 of his last 20?
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Hes played to a 6.1 Score Diff..
The mans had an absolute field day! I dont understand why he's gutted hes been cut.
Was this in a comp or general play?
Bamberdele2.0
Active member
I think he only would have only been adjusted 2 shots if they the handicap committee hadn’t of got involved. I’m sure he scored around 44 stableford points in our weekly comp.
He’s probably more upset about not hitting that score in a major and only picking up a couple of quid in the weekly stableford for a 5 shot cut with no name on the board lol
He’s probably more upset about not hitting that score in a major and only picking up a couple of quid in the weekly stableford for a 5 shot cut with no name on the board lol
wjemather
Well-known member
If I understand you correctly, the handicap committee have applied additional reductions (to the automatic exception play reduction) outside of a formal review. They absolutely should not be doing this; and even if the reduction was as a result of a review, the player must be informed and given the right to appeal prior to application (appeals are to the committee in the first instance, and then to county if still not satisfied).
To answer your original question; there is no restriction on the makeup of the handicap committee (other than a minimum of 3 people) or conflict with non-member/non-playing staff being on it, but it is peer review system so a majority of playing members is recommended (and it can make sense to have a representative from each sub-section of the club, i.e. ladies, seniors). Many clubs have employed staff in the role of handicap secretaries as finding volunteers willing to give up that much time can be difficult; the problem is, since it isn't their primary role, many such committees simply don't operate within the rules of handicapping.
Swango1980
Well-known member
That last round was on 17th April, and it appears he won that competition with 43 points (2nd was 41 points)? If that is the same guy, the 17th of April was not his last competition, so I assume this drop was some time ago, after that competition win?
I will assume the player already had 20 scores on their record at that point. Their Score Differential of 6.1 would have replaced another in the top 8. No idea what the 8th best score was beforehand, so given his Index was 15.8, I'll guess a value of about 18 at that time in April. That would have resulted in a cut of about 1.5, plus an extra 1.0 for an exceptional score reduction (he shot more than 7.0 better than his index). So, his Index would have dropped from 15.8 to about 13.3.
Therefore, if that was about right, I'd expect his course handicap the following competition to be around 13.3 x 137/113 = 16. And Playing Handicap = 15. The same player played a week later, and I notice his handicap (playing) was 13.
So, does it sound about right that the Committee cut him an additional 2 strokes over and above what WHS cut him after that competition? If so, on the face of it that sounds wrong, and you could have a rogue handicap committee that like to act outside the scope of WHS, especially when under a bit of peer pressure. Do they commonly give people extra cuts if they win a competition? Or, maybe they had other evidence I am unaware of that they felt they had to act upon?
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
We need the club secretary (or general manager as he is called) on the committee as he is the only one with access to the WHS portal. Mind you he normally just listens rather than takes part as we need two people who did not take part to handle any appeal against the decision.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Two things from Rules of Handicapping
A player must be made aware of, and be given the opportunity to contribute
towards, the handicap review process to the extent practicable and must have
recourse to an appeals procedure, if requested.
The club cannot amend a players handicap index straight away following a review
Any adjustment to a player’s Handicap Index resulting from a handicap review
must:
l Be applied only after the player has been informed and has had an opportunity to
respond to the Handicap Committee or, where appropriate, the Authorized
Association.
A player must be made aware of, and be given the opportunity to contribute
towards, the handicap review process to the extent practicable and must have
recourse to an appeals procedure, if requested.
The club cannot amend a players handicap index straight away following a review
Any adjustment to a player’s Handicap Index resulting from a handicap review
must:
l Be applied only after the player has been informed and has had an opportunity to
respond to the Handicap Committee or, where appropriate, the Authorized
Association.
