GM Gender Article

[Lord Tyrion]

H
This is subconsciously making you think a different way, harking back to old times. Don't think of it as men or women competitions, they're just competitions. Anyone should be able to play (members obviously) . That's how a totally inclusive golf club should work. All our summer and winter 4ball knock outs are mixed and it works perfectly fine. There are some clubs out there who won't even let a woman mark your comp card or vice versa! Now that kind of crap has got to stop, it's nearly 2016!!!

Totally agree with this.

When people talk about women golfers they often forget the women who are not members because they look at clubs and see midweek comps only for them but they work. Can you imagine midweek only comps for men. Would you join a club that offered that only? Would you join and then complain or simply not join at all? If clubs only want retired women or really keen female golfers then keep the status quo. If they want to attract young, working age women with an interest in golf then they need to change.

 

[louise_a]

Totally agree with this.

When people talk about women golfers they often forget the women who are not members because they look at clubs and see midweek comps only for them but they work. Can you imagine midweek only comps for men. Would you join a club that offered that only? Would you join and then complain or simply not join at all? If clubs only want retired women or really keen female golfers then keep the status quo. If they want to attract young, working age women with an interest in golf then they need to change.

We have a midweek men's only comp every Wednesday.

 

[chellie]

No slower than playing with slow gentlemen and high handicap gentlemen. From experience a lot of women groups move a lot faster than gents. You get slow players in both sexes so a non argument in my opinion.

Slow men's competitions on a Saturday are the normal at ours and I wouldn't want to be out with them due to that. Been out with HID marking his card when it's been the midweek stableford competition in the summer for men and they are usually a plus four hour round. No thanks. I'll stick to playing in the ladies competitions on a Thursday.

 

[brendy]

I don't think the idea will float. Women off different tees makes for a different course (trouble off tee etc), if they play off competitive length mens tees then they won't figure using a handicap anywhere even close to current. If shorter tees are used, I'd wager a lot of clubs would lose members.
On top of all this, there is the political nightmare that is enforced unisex groupings or self picked, then speed of play amongst other things would come to the fore even more so. There are so many variables that would be introduced that it could cause all sorts of turmoil in a relatively happy membership.

 

[Jacko_G]

Slow men's competitions on a Saturday are the normal at ours and I wouldn't want to be out with them due to that. Been out with HID marking his card when it's been the midweek stableford competition in the summer for men and they are usually a plus four hour round. No thanks. I'll stick to playing in the ladies competitions on a Thursday.

Apologies, new member here and didn't pick up on the sex. I agree ladies are often quicker than men yet get the blame for slow play.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I haven't seen the GM article but I think my opinion has been pretty well documented on here.

I believe that golf clubs are doing all their members, but women in particular, a disservice by breaking us up along gender lines. We are all individuals and, as golfers, we each have our own reasons for playing, our own preferences and goals. You're not going to attract many young women to a club that forces them to play in a ladies section that is set up to exclusively meet the expectations of retired old ladies.

All courses should, in my opinion, have both a male and female par and SSS from every set of tees on the course. In social play, every golfer should be entitled to play from whichever set of tees he or she wants. Even use different tees on different holes - why not - play the whites if you like but if you can't make the 200 yard carry on the 14th then use the yellow or red on that hole? Obviously in competition the tees for the comp need to be stipulated.

I'm also a big fan of mixed competitions. If not combined comps then, at the very least, every club competition should run parallel male and female events. This is vital to allow equal access to the course at all times - my #1 complaint about inequality in golf clubs.

I have no issue if it transpires that mixed comps still end up played in predominantly all male and all female groups. Unless comps are drawn most people just play with their pals anyway - this is no different.

There needs, however, to be some recognition that male and female sport is different. We are simply not as strong so, in golf terms, on average we don't hit it as far. Handicap competitions are very artificial anyway, so it's no problem to accommodate this by having men play a longer course than women and allowing handicaps and SSS to sort it out. However, I think it's important that clubs do have a certain amount of scratch golf and this is where it is hard to compete. In my view, there is a need for separate scratch comps for women, culminating in a women's club championship.


Patrick - that story you described is ridiculous, utterly pathetic if true. I think (hope) there must be more to it than you are aware of and have relayed here.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I haven't seen the GM article but I think my opinion has been pretty well documented on here.

I believe that golf clubs are doing all their members, but women in particular, a disservice by breaking us up along gender lines. We are all individuals and, as golfers, we each have our own reasons for playing, our own preferences and goals. You're not going to attract many young women to a club that forces them to play in a ladies section that is set up to exclusively meet the expectations of retired old ladies.

All courses should, in my opinion, have both a male and female par and SSS from every set of tees on the course. In social play, every golfer should be entitled to play from whichever set of tees he or she wants. Even use different tees on different holes - why not - play the whites if you like but if you can't make the 200 yard carry on the 14th then use the yellow or red on that hole? Obviously in competition the tees for the comp need to be stipulated.

I'm also a big fan of mixed competitions. If not combined comps then, at the very least, every club competition should run parallel male and female events. This is vital to allow equal access to the course at all times - my #1 complaint about inequality in golf clubs.

I have no issue if it transpires that mixed comps still end up played in predominantly all male and all female groups. Unless comps are drawn most people just play with their pals anyway - this is no different.

There needs, however, to be some recognition that male and female sport is different. We are simply not as strong so, in golf terms, on average we don't hit it as far. Handicap competitions are very artificial anyway, so it's no problem to accommodate this by having men play a longer course than women and allowing handicaps and SSS to sort it out. However, I think it's important that clubs do have a certain amount of scratch golf and this is where it is hard to compete. In my view, there is a need for separate scratch comps for women, culminating in a women's club championship.


Patrick - that story you described is ridiculous, utterly pathetic if true. I think (hope) there must be more to it than you are aware of and have relayed here.

Great post, complete sense Karen.

 

[louise_a]

I do agree with what FD said and would welcome the chance to play in mixed competitions apart from the mixed 4 balls. I struggle to see how it would work in practice, I just think it would alienate a lot of both the men and the women.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I just think it would alienate a lot of both the men and the women.

Serious question Louise, why?

I'm a member at one club where all comps are mixed and I have just joined another. I haven't seen any problems.... Which is not the same as saying there aren't any problems, of course!

 

[louise_a]

I can only speak of my own club, The main Saturday competition complain men (men only) is already full every week, so I can see plenty cause of men complaining if they cant get a game because women are playing, I know its not right but sadly that's how it is and I cant see the attitude changing anytime soon.

Also I think a lot of women would be put off playing in the same competition as men, there will be a few like myself would love the chance but I think we are in the minority, its a shame but again I cant see the attitude changing soon.

It may encourage younger women to join but I think it would be at the cost of causing older ones to leave. These older ones who may not be too good at golf but are the ones who do a lot of work around the club.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I can only speak of my own club, The main Saturday competition complain men (men only) is already full every week, so I can see plenty cause of men complaining if they cant get a game because women are playing, I know its not right but sadly that's how it is and I cant see the attitude changing anytime soon.

That's a non-argument in my book. They'd complain if they struggle to get a game but don't bat an eyelid that women are currently barred from playing then. Hypocrisy.

Also I think a lot of women would be put off playing in the same competition as men, there will be a few like myself would love the chance but I think we are in the minority, its a shame but again I cant see the attitude changing soon.

It may encourage younger women to join but I think it would be at the cost of causing older ones to leave. These older ones who may not be too good at golf but are the ones who do a lot of work around the club.

This is a common opinion, I think, but I'm not sure how true it is. Regardless, there must be ways to mitigate it with a bit of thought.

 

[TheCaddie]

We have a 8 ladies who have 7 day membership.

This is the issue isn't it? Only 8 ladies at your club that have a 7 day membership!?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That's a non-argument in my book. They'd complain if they struggle to get a game but don't bat an eyelid that women are currently barred from playing then. Hypocrisy.



This is a common opinion, I think, but I'm not sure how true it is. Regardless, there must be ways to mitigate it with a bit of thought.

Next year I put a motion through that all non board comps be open to all so on the weekend the monthly medals and stablefords are now available to all anytime of the day - first come first served

The ladies have refused to allow it to happen to the ladies medals and stablefords during the week - only two ladies voted in favour - the 100 others voted against. So now ladies can play in every single non board comp at the club - men can only play in the weekend ones. The men's section have opened up everything to encourage integration between all sections - the ladies have refused

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In the same way slow play isn't going to be eradicated, I fear this issue will for many clubs remain a pipe dream

 

[Junior]

This is the issue isn't it? Only 8 ladies at your club that have a 7 day membership!?

We do have a very active lady membership and our chair golf golf is a lady. However, most of them prefer 6 day membership. It's cheaper and they still play 3/4 times per week.

 

[Sats]

I'm all for equality; have tees represent skill rather than gender.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'm all for equality; have tees represent skill rather than gender.

No way, I'd be teeing off next to the green if that happened. And I'd still not hit GIR

 

[patricks148]

Patrick - that story you described is ridiculous, utterly pathetic if true. I think (hope) there must be more to it than you are aware of and have relayed here.

as far as I'm aware Karen, this was all there was too it. in fact one of the guys wives told me when i asked her after they didn't feel comfortable teeing of in front of a group of Cat1 players.

the back bar patio is a about 80 yards away from the Cameron Courses 1st tee.

 

[huds1475]

My place has just announced we're going to gender free tees next year. No announcement about competitions or anything as yet though.

Be interested to see how it develops.

 

[louise_a]

It will be interesting how it works at Manchester, we have been drawn in the same group as them in the handicap shield for the 3rd year running so will be playing up there.