Don't Pay UK

[Fade and Die]

If you don’t kick it down, there won’t be any can left to kick. This is years of failed policy and lack of investment coming home to roost.

Alternatively, like Covid, we do lockdowns and people can assemble in heatbanks & foodbanks or in heated stables. This will bring out the spirit of the war. As one of the MPs tweeted .. Those of us brought up before central heating wore extra jumpers when winter came

Covid was a cataclysmic event, our energy policy is market driven event. Yes we will have more taxes, equally we will need growth - unleash Britain. Dare I say fix our borders. Extraordinary situations require extraordinary solutions.

Exactly right, get Fracking, ramp up our nuclear power production and until they are online open up the coal mines. Lets be truly energy independent. Nuts to the Green lobby. (the Fracking scares were just Russian disinformation anyway to keep us hooked on their gas)

Re the Coal, we probably lack the expertise to do this now as that generation has gone, but we can do what we always do, pay foreign nationals. I think Poland are the experts now. Lets tap them up.

 

[Neilds]

I'm with octopus after my energy company went bust last year..... I will be cancelling my DD and then paying quarterly for what we use as there is no DD discount with them anyway.

It may do something.... It may not, but I see the logic behind reducing their income from monthly to quarterly in a bit to hurt their cash flow a bit.

Is this the best way to go? Paying by DD smooths out the expensive winter months, by paying quarterly will mean higher bills in the winter, making it harder to budget. Make sure you do your sums properly before making any decisions

 

[Deleted member 29109]

If you don’t kick it down, there won’t be any can left to kick. This is years of failed policy and lack of investment coming home to roost.

Alternatively, like Covid, we do lockdowns and people can assemble in heatbanks & foodbanks or in heated stables. This will bring out the spirit of the war. As one of the MPs tweeted .. Those of us brought up before central heating wore extra jumpers when winter came

Covid was a cataclysmic event, our energy policy is market driven event. Yes we will have more taxes, equally we will need growth - unleash Britain. Dare I say fix our borders. Extraordinary situations require extraordinary solutions.

We aren’t getting extraordinary solutions though are we? There has been no solution other than more debt. Which is possibly an acceptable solution if you are getting on a bit. But it will screw everyone else up.

If tax hikes are to be used to pay for this mess then it should include taxes on pensions.

What we are getting is a chance for us all to get a taste of how great life in the 70s was.

Secure our borders unleash Britain? What does that even mean? Weren’t we supposed to become a global superpower after you know what? How’s that working out?

Becoming more isolated because some people don’t like Johnny Foreigner isn’t going to help.

 

[bobmac]

Exactly right, get Fracking, ramp up our nuclear power production and until they are online open up the coal mines. Lets be truly energy independent. Nuts to the Green lobby. (the Fracking scares were just Russian disinformation anyway to keep us hooked on their gas)

Re the Coal, we probably lack the expertise to do this now as that generation has gone, but we can do what we always do, pay foreign nationals. I think Poland are the experts now. Lets tap them up.

So let me get this right, in these days of soaring energy costs, you want to use coal, fracking and nuclear which is very expensive and ditch clean energy which is the cheapest way of creating electricity and will only get cheaper?
This also might interest you........
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2...-the-worst-climate-change-is-top-of-the-list/

 

[Marshy77]

Quick question - do you need a smart meter to go down this don't pay route? Keep looking at this and can't seem to find an answer or get various answers via social media..

Also, will it affect your credit score? Think someone asked earlier about paying your current amount. Cancel DD, make a payment each month, put the money aside to pay when you will have to or completely stop payments altogether until a resolution is come to?

 

[Fade and Die]

So let me get this right, in these days of soaring energy costs, you want to use coal, fracking and nuclear which is very expensive and ditch clean energy which is the cheapest way of creating electricity and will only get cheaper?
This also might interest you........
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2...-the-worst-climate-change-is-top-of-the-list/

As I said Bob, proven Russian disinformation.

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-2019/the-plot-against-fracking/

https://amp.theguardian.com/environ...ing-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking

What we need is reliable energy. None of the renewables provide this. I’m not saying there is not a place for them but the bulk of our requirements should not come from imports.

 

[Mudball]

As I said Bob, proven Russian disinformation.

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-2019/the-plot-against-fracking/

https://amp.theguardian.com/environ...ing-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking

What we need is reliable energy. None of the renewables provide this. I’m not saying there is not a place for them but the bulk of our requirements should not come from imports.

We need all forms of it as part of an integrated energy strategy. Also key would be to add citizen generated energy via solar into the mix. Gone are the days of big plants, make it distributed. But for that they need to help with green subsidies. - which as we know have now been withdrawn

 

[Fade and Die]

We need all forms of it as part of an integrated energy strategy. Also key would be to add citizen generated energy via solar into the mix. Gone are the days of big plants, make it distributed. But for that they need to help with green subsidies. - which as we know have now been withdrawn

No need to burden the Tax payer with any “Green” subsidies just make the suppliers pay a fairer feed in tariff. A lot closer to the tariff they sell the energy for.

 

[bobmac]

I think we should stop doing what we've been doing for centuries which got us where we are today.

 

[Mudball]

No need to burden the Tax payer with any “Green” subsidies just make the suppliers pay a fairer feed in tariff. A lot closer to the tariff they sell the energy for.

It does not have to be tax payer susbidfy. Say the govt wants to generator 1GW of power.
1) This requires 10b in investment. You can use some of it to power 10k homes that generate 4kw each at a fraction of the cost by providing ‘subsidy’ to put panels on.

2) this reduces consumption in these 10k houses (thus reducing the impact on generation)

3) use decent FIT to put any excess capacity onto the grid. It will still put load on grid

4) invest in storage technology so we can use on dead days.

Reducing the need from 10k houses means we don’t need 1GW of power centrally. So it burns less gas/coal/biomass there. I used 10k houses, you can scale it to anythign

We simply don’t have the land mass of a China, India, Australia or the US to put panels on greenfield sites, we have to put them on houses and buildings. As we get more EVs in, even those who claim we don’t need green levy because they don’t want a PV on their Victorian houses will have to do a rethink.

Our energy strategy is pants and we need to get our head out of the sand and rethink. There is plenty of green bashing going around. Now we have some leaders saying we need to put jumpers on because Russia is doing evil things. This is just gaslighting (excuse the pun)

 

[Deleted member 21784]

It does not have to be tax payer susbidfy. Say the govt wants to generator 1GW of power.
1) This requires 10b in investment. You can use some of it to power 10k homes that generate 4kw each at a fraction of the cost by providing ‘subsidy’ to put panels on.

2) this reduces consumption in these 10k houses (thus reducing the impact on generation)

3) use decent FIT to put any excess capacity onto the grid. It will still put load on grid

4) invest in storage technology so we can use on dead days.

Reducing the need from 10k houses means we don’t need 1GW of power centrally. So it burns less gas/coal/biomass there. I used 10k houses, you can scale it to anythign

We simply don’t have the land mass of a China, India, Australia or the US to put panels on greenfield sites, we have to put them on houses and buildings. As we get more EVs in, even those who claim we don’t need green levy because they don’t want a PV on their Victorian houses will have to do a rethink.

Our energy strategy is pants and we need to get our head out of the sand and rethink. There is plenty of green bashing going around. Now we have some leaders saying we need to put jumpers on because Russia is doing evil things. This is just gaslighting (excuse the pun)

Solar tiles whilst costly look amazing. Can bearly see them

New panels come in all black and look more sleek than the ones with white boarders, might encourage people who judge looks

I been after panels for 7 years before Mrs agreed , decent feed in would help , ATM it's 4p! Should be what u buy it for considering my excess basically goes down the shared cable and to my neighbour.. so the power company save on the energy they don't produce but sell to my neighbour for 28p for example

They work well tho, battery not arrived yet so saving is less, but since may 9th (still fixed at 14p) I've saved £200 off my bills

If you put the figure at 48p the saving jumps to £500

Battery even more as don't send it back for 4p just use it during night

 

[Mudball]

Off topic .. but we should see more smaller and modular nuclear plants being deployed.

I thought I read that U.K. was sending modular power plants to Ukraine, but can’t find that news anymore.

There is plenty of private investment going into this space this year. https://news.crunchbase.com/clean-tech-and-energy/startups-nuclear-fusion-fission/

 

[Tashyboy]

It goes without saying my career was coal mining. That said I honestly believe the pits/coal mines should of Been closed. But here is a massive but. They should of been closed when there was alternative forms of energy available to replace what coal was producing. And by that I do not mean relying on Russia, France or anywhere else in the world. It goes without saying and without argument that coal is dirty. However the CO emitted could of had carbon capture. Our powers that be did not want to go down the route of making coal burning cleaner until WE could provide an alternative. In fact our powers that be would sooner import dirty coal from subsidised countries because it was cheaper then our own coal. Talking of CO produced how much was produced to import that from around the world. From our countries point of view, that didn’t matter because the numbers went to the country that transported it. So that’s ok Then. ?
So we are now where we are because of decisions made within the last decade. The last coal mine shut in 2016. Because the decision was made not to subsidise Coal with taxpayers money we are now reliant on imported energy, or should I say lack of imported energy. Bottom line once more poor decision making has lead to a winter of discontent. For a country that is sat on coal, gas and oil, coupled with wind, solar etc etc. it is nothing short of scandalous.

On another note, Missis T has just been out front and not one house has any lights on. Me finks folk are already cutting back on electricity usage.

 

[road2ruin]

Isn’t that just kicking the can down the road?

It doesn’t seem right to pile even more tax burden on a future generation to pay for a problem today. Especially given they will be paying the cost of Covid for a very long time.

Assuming (hopefully) that Covid is a once in a generation type event and that the government have made the decision to take us into a war then surely the repayments should be treated like those of previous wars etc. It shouldn’t be looked as something that needs paying off within the next 10 years, it should be spread across the next 75/100 years. You do this and the tax burden is barely noticeable.

I vaguely remember reading that we didn’t finish paying off WW2 until 2008 or something and I think the events over the last couple of years should be treated similarly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Quick question - do you need a smart meter to go down this don't pay route? Keep looking at this and can't seem to find an answer or get various answers via social media..

Also, will it affect your credit score? Think someone asked earlier about paying your current amount. Cancel DD, make a payment each month, put the money aside to pay when you will have to or completely stop payments altogether until a resolution is come to?

Running your credit card right up to its limit doesnt seem to impact your credit score as long as every month you pay the minimum payment, though they prefer us to be paying ‘minimum plus’ these days. Indeed your credit score ‘likes’ managed debt.

So why not a government backed credit scheme (with a credit guarantee for the companies) for gas and electricity that everyone qualifies for equally…regardless of credit history, one in which we pay at least a minimum payment every month…let’s say set at level of what I was paying 6 months ago. Maybe the credit limit is set at the average annual bill based upon the current cap and that limit increases as the cap increases.

Yes this means I will have a debt sitting there and building up but as it is one that I am servicing through my monthly payments it does not impact my credit scoring…just like a credit card balance…it can just sit there. After all this is how the power companies currently help customers manage a debt - though it still shows as debt on credit record it does not count as bad debt…(bit like student loan?) though it might well impact such as loan affordability assessments…but hey…let’s sort power first.

Only difference with what was is that the current situation is the huge numbers having to carry such a debt and the power companies may struggle to carry that customer debt themselves.

 

[SocketRocket]

We aren’t getting extraordinary solutions though are we? There has been no solution other than more debt. Which is possibly an acceptable solution if you are getting on a bit. But it will screw everyone else up.

If tax hikes are to be used to pay for this mess then it should include taxes on pensions.

What we are getting is a chance for us all to get a taste of how great life in the 70s was.

Secure our borders unleash Britain? What does that even mean? Weren’t we supposed to become a global superpower after you know what? How’s that working out?

Becoming more isolated because some people don’t like Johnny Foreigner isn’t going to help.

Pensions are already taxed. State Pensions use up most of the tax free allowance and occupational pensions are taxed as income.

You are very divisive aren't you and generally towards old people.

These huge problems we are and have been facing are nothing to do with changes to our trading arrangements, they are due to a Worldwide pandemic and a War that none of us envisaged.

 

[GreiginFife]

Running your credit card right up to its limit doesnt seem to impact your credit score as long as every month you pay the minimum payment, though they prefer us to be paying ‘minimum plus’ these days. Indeed your credit score ‘likes’ managed debt.

So why not a government backed credit scheme (with a credit guarantee for the companies) for gas and electricity that everyone qualifies for equally…regardless of credit history, one in which we pay at least a minimum payment every month…let’s say set at level of what I was paying 6 months ago. Maybe the credit limit is set at the average annual bill based upon the current cap and that limit increases as the cap increases.

Yes this means I will have a debt sitting there and building up but as it is one that I am servicing through my monthly payments it does not impact my credit scoring…just like a credit card balance…it can just sit there. After all this is how the power companies currently help customers manage a debt - though it still shows as debt on credit record it does not count as bad debt…(bit like student loan?) though it might well impact such as loan affordability assessments…but hey…let’s sort power first.

Only difference with what was is that the current situation is the huge numbers having to carry such a debt and the power companies may struggle to carry that customer debt themselves.

Absolutely wrong and quite dangerous to be posting such nonsense.

Your credit rating is made up of a number of complex factors. Credit usage is one of these. Credit references monitor credit card usage as a percentage of total credit limit and your credit rating is adjusted as you hit marker “milestones”. These vary but generally tend to be 30, 50, 75+ and the impact increases as you go up the markers.

Your credit “score” is pretty meaningless but your rating is different and utilisation plays a big part of rating.

Paying the minimum amount is the minimum legal obligation but also now harms you as once you pay more in fees and interest than you contribute, you enter “persistent debt” which not only harms your rating but in most cases will see your card account frozen and ultimately closed and recovered.

Yes, lenders like to see managed debt but not managed at its absolute limit when viewing your CAIS data, that just looks like you are reliant on credit and makes you less attractive to lend to (your credit “rating”) even if your “score” is ‘high’.

Please research things like this before posting incorrect and dangerous statements.

 

[Mudball]

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Absolutely wrong and quite dangerous to be posting such nonsense.

Your credit rating is made up of a number of complex factors. Credit usage is one of these. Credit references monitor credit card usage as a percentage of total credit limit and your credit rating is adjusted as you hit marker “milestones”. These vary but generally tend to be 30, 50, 75+ and the impact increases as you go up the markers.

Your credit “score” is pretty meaningless but your rating is different and utilisation plays a big part of rating.

Paying the minimum amount is the minimum legal obligation but also now harms you as once you pay more in fees and interest than you contribute, you enter “persistent debt” which not only harms your rating but in most cases will see your card account frozen and ultimately closed and recovered.

Yes, lenders like to see managed debt but not managed at its absolute limit when viewing your CAIS data, that just looks like you are reliant on credit and makes you less attractive to lend to (your credit “rating”) even if your “score” is ‘high’.

Please research things like this before posting incorrect and dangerous statements.

Sorry I have and did...and I may have got it a bit wrong in respect of impact on credit rating, but it is an approach that power companies support to managing debt - even if the payment is notional and payment period is decades.

And surely it does not take from having a government guaranteed credit card 'like' approach to managing power debt as a possible route to go to help alleviate the issues that many millions of families are facing in the coming months and possibly years. And if we pay towards that credit at the rate we were paying a year ago then we are doing more than simply servicing a bit of interest - thereby hopefully minimising the impact on credit rating you point out.

Talk of future energy strategy is all well and good but it is of no help at all to these families who are facing immediate term real difficulties - indeed such talk to me seems little more than a diversion and distraction from the real issue - that which is the topic of this thread.

 

[GreiginFife]

Sorry I have and did...and I may have got it a bit wrong in respect of impact on credit rating, but it is an approach that power companies support to managing debt - even if the payment is notional and payment period is decades.

And surely it does not take from having a government guaranteed credit card 'like' approach to managing power debt as a possible route to go to help alleviate the issues that many millions of families are facing in the coming months and possibly years. And if we pay towards that credit at the rate we were paying a year ago then we are doing more than simply servicing a bit of interest - thereby hopefully minimising the impact on credit rating you point out.

Talk of future energy strategy is all well and good but it is of no help at all to these families who are facing immediate term real difficulties - indeed such talk to me seems little more than a diversion and distraction from the real issue - that which is the topic of this thread.

I make no comment on the government scheme, that was not the point of my reply.

My reply was that advising people that maxing out their credit cards will have no effect is wrong and dangerous. Power companies are not financial institutions and their "support" on it doesn't really mean squat, they are not the ones that need to deal with the issues that such behaviours create.

If you did research it then you have misunderstood it at best. Please re-read the FCA persistent debt rules again if you already have and refer to credit utilisation rules for clarification.

I will repeat, using your credit card to it's limit and consistently paying minimum payments WILL affect your credit rating (even if your "score" stays 'high'), this is utterly regardless of what power companies support.