Don't Pay UK

[BiMGuy]

Pensions are already taxed. State Pensions use up most of the tax free allowance and occupational pensions are taxed as income.

You are very divisive aren't you and generally towards old people.

These huge problems we are and have been facing are nothing to do with changes to our trading arrangements, they are due to a Worldwide pandemic and a War that none of us envisaged.

I speak my mind. It’s not my problem if people take offence. I’m surrounded by pensioners that seemingly have more money than they know what to do with.

I don’t see why we all, including older people can’t share some of the burden now, rather than pushing it on to our children and future generations.

They aren’t responsible for this mess. Young people get enough of a kicking as it is, I’m proving an alternative view.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I make no comment on the government scheme, that was not the point of my reply.

My reply was that advising people that maxing out their credit cards will have no effect is wrong and dangerous. Power companies are not financial institutions and their "support" on it doesn't really mean squat, they are not the ones that need to deal with the issues that such behaviours create.

If you did research it then you have misunderstood it at best. Please re-read the FCA persistent debt rules again if you already have and refer to credit utilisation rules for clarification.

I will repeat, using your credit card to it's limit and consistently paying minimum payments WILL affect your credit rating (even if your "score" stays 'high'), this is utterly regardless of what power companies support.

I wasn’t advising anyone to max out a credit card…just that many do and choose to live with it. My point is solely about thinking about some scheme that might enable us to build a debt, if we must, and manage it in a way that does not significantly impact our credit rating.

Perhaps the better model would be the student loan scheme…from

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-your-student-loan--2

Student loans are different from other types of borrowing because they do not appear on your credit file and your credit rating is not affected. However, if you apply for a mortgage, lenders may consider if you have a student loan when deciding how much you can borrow.

Unlike other borrowing, what you repay depends on your income and not how much you owe. You repay 9% of your income above the repayment threshold for your plan type. If you’re not working or your income is below the threshold, you won’t make any repayments.

 

[GreiginFife]

I wasn’t advising anyone to max out a credit card…just that many do and choose to live with it. My point is solely about thinking about some scheme that might enable us to build a debt, if we must, and manage it in a way that does not significantly impact our credit rating.

Perhaps the better model would be the student loan scheme…from

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-your-student-loan--2

Student loans are different from other types of borrowing because they do not appear on your credit file and your credit rating is not affected. However, if you apply for a mortgage, lenders may consider if you have a student loan when deciding how much you can borrow.

Unlike other borrowing, what you repay depends on your income and not how much you owe. You repay 9% of your income above the repayment threshold for your plan type. If you’re not working or your income is below the threshold, you won’t make any repayments.

If you read my reply you will see that I didn't say "advising people to max out their credit card", I said the advice, or even the intimation that it would have no impact on credit rating is wrong. People that choose to do and live with it, also live with the consequences of it. Either not being able to borrow or being sold products at much higher interest rates meaning much higher repayment commitments and entering a debt spiral.

I understand what your intent is, but that is neither here nor there in that you made a potentially dangerous assertion that running a credit card at or near limit and paying minimum payments is a safe practice.

Credit card lending is not like any other borrowing and, IMO, should not be used as a comparison against any schemes.

But, that's up to you what you choose to analogue with, I just wouldn't advise CC borrowing as the means to do it. You're on much more solid ground (again IMO), analogy-wise, with that student loan approach.

 

[SocketRocket]

I speak my mind. It’s not my problem if people take offence. I’m surrounded by pensioners that seemingly have more money than they know what to do with.

I don’t see why we all, including older people can’t share some of the burden now, rather than pushing it on to our children and future generations.

They aren’t responsible for this mess. Young people get enough of a kicking as it is, I’m proving an alternative view.

As I said you are divisive, looking to blame segments of society for issues completely out of their control is wrong. There are many extremely rich young people but should we be pointing the finger at them? Of course we shouldn't.

Also, you were wrong in your comment suggesting Pensioners should be taxed, maybe you could admit you were wrong in assuming they aren't! Old people will share the pain of this current situation, think about it.

I also speak my mind but I make an effort to think through what I say first. Maybe you could do the same when providing your biased alternative view.

 

[road2ruin]

I hope this doesn't veer to close to the political line as it's more of a general comment rather than aimed at any particular political party however does it worry anyone else that we're in this present situation and seemingly those in power are struggling to come up with solutions and are having to do it on the hop? When we were (for all intents and purposes) taken into this war isn't there a department that sits there and has a think about what the long term ramifications of it might be?

We then started with sanctions on Russia and surely we knew that, other than a physical war, the only weapon they had would be energy given how reliant most parts of Europe are on it. I would have thought a department that deals with energy security or such like would have run all sorts of scenarios of what would happen if Russia turned off the taps, what would that mean for the countries who are reliant on it and the wider outlook on what it would do to the market. It can't have come as any surprise that when we started the sanctions that Russia started to threaten everyone with the only real weapon they had i.e. energy. Yet it seems to have come as a surprise and seemingly no draft plans were there of what we could do to mitigate this. Appreciate that this might be too simplistic a viewpoint but does worry me that our longer term planning seems pretty average.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you read my reply you will see that I didn't say "advising people to max out their credit card", I said the advice, or even the intimation that it would have no impact on credit rating is wrong. People that choose to do and live with it, also live with the consequences of it. Either not being able to borrow or being sold products at much higher interest rates meaning much higher repayment commitments and entering a debt spiral.

I understand what your intent is, but that is neither here nor there in that you made a potentially dangerous assertion that running a credit card at or near limit and paying minimum payments is a safe practice.

Credit card lending is not like any other borrowing and, IMO, should not be used as a comparison against any schemes.

But, that's up to you what you choose to analogue with, I just wouldn't advise CC borrowing as the means to do it. You're on much more solid ground (again IMO), analogy-wise, with that student loan approach.

I agree, my thoughts were on a credit scheme, and credit cards were simply what first came to mind as many of us have CCs and manage our payments one way or another. I was thinking of there being some sort of scheme that didn’t impact credit rating, and only further thought did I realise that student loans scheme was what I was after.

Bottom line for me on the subject of this thread is…better a managed debt than a county court judgement on my credit record as ’not paying’ could have me with one and they are a pain getting them resolved and removed.

At this precise moment I don’t give much of a flying fig about future energy security strategies, since as important as these will be and as diverting as talking points they might be for those who will manage, they actually don’t address the current issue and pending catastrophe for individuals and businesses and major problems for such as schools and hospitals.

We need answers and solutions for what is happening today and will happen over the coming months…discussions about 5-10yrs hence are interesting but will not keep the lights and heating on this winter.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I hope this doesn't veer to close to the political line as it's more of a general comment rather than aimed at any particular political party however does it worry anyone else that we're in this present situation and seemingly those in power are struggling to come up with solutions and are having to do it on the hop? When we were (for all intents and purposes) taken into this war isn't there a department that sits there and has a think about what the long term ramifications of it might be?

We then started with sanctions on Russia and surely we knew that, other than a physical war, the only weapon they had would be energy given how reliant most parts of Europe are on it. I would have thought a department that deals with energy security or such like would have run all sorts of scenarios of what would happen if Russia turned off the taps, what would that mean for the countries who are reliant on it and the wider outlook on what it would do to the market. It can't have come as any surprise that when we started the sanctions that Russia started to threaten everyone with the only real weapon they had i.e. energy. Yet it seems to have come as a surprise and seemingly no draft plans were there of what we could do to mitigate this. Appreciate that this might be too simplistic a viewpoint but does worry me that our longer term planning seems pretty average.

Good comments, IMO. Yes, there does seem to be a parcity of solutions from the ones whose job it is.
Talking of simplicity ? . A thought that recurs to me throughout this energy business is why the taps turned off by Russia, or whoever, causes those with the gas to sell, to sell it at outrageous prices.
I know the phrase supply and demand - I hear it ad nauseum.
Some people tell me the gas is sold by auction, and thus the price is bid upwards.
But the principle of an auction is that the available product goes to the one who will pay most. The ones who do not do not get the product. What there was has gone to someone else , the one who paid the highest price.
Now, can anyone tell me which Countries or whatever who buy and use this gas, are not getting any?
Is it Germany, Sweden, U.K., ...who?
Do you think that any of us, who can afford to pay up for this gas from the energy companies for our house heating and cooking,will not get all they switch on for?
Thought not.
Same old story....tell 'me its supply and demand , there's a shortage so the price has gone up.........But anyone who coughs up the asking price will always get it. Funny that?

 

[Mudball]

Good comments, IMO. Yes, there does seem to be a parcity of solutions from the ones whose job it is.
Talking of simplicity ? . A thought that recurs to me throughout this energy business is why the taps turned off by Russia, or whoever, causes those with the gas to sell, to sell it at outrageous prices.
I know the phrase supply and demand - I hear it ad nauseum.
Some people tell me the gas is sold by auction, and thus the price is bid upwards.
But the principle of an auction is that the available product goes to the one who will pay most. The ones who do not do not get the product. What there was has gone to someone else , the one who paid the highest price.
Now, can anyone tell me which Countries or whatever who buy and use this gas, are not getting any?
Is it Germany, Sweden, U.K., ...who?
Do you think that any of us, who can afford to pay up for this gas from the energy companies for our house heating and cooking,will not get all they switch on for?
Thought not.
Same old story....tell 'me its supply and demand , there's a shortage so the price has gone up.........But anyone who coughs up the asking price will always get it. Funny that?

I dont think there is a shortage per se... there is excess Russian capacity, but they are not inclined to sell to Europe (incl us) or the US, so they burn this off. Since there is only limited storage around, they are also making deals outside Europe.. India picked up a lot of cheap Russian oil. China likewsie. Equally, they will (or may have) curtail their production - basically leave it in the ground.
Energy companies are trying to buy gas/oil from whereeve they can find - US, Middle East, South America, Australia etc. This is going at premiums. This then gets passed on to consumers. The energy cos, are asking the Govt to provide support to buy commodities at premiums while the continue to hold the consumer end steady. if the govt backs the idea, this guarantees that the energy co can have access to gas and therefore continue to guarantee it for the Brit consumer. The govt currently refusing to support such a move. apparently, if we get a tax cut, we can afford to pay for higher winter gas.

 

[Mudball]

I hope this doesn't veer to close to the political line as it's more of a general comment rather than aimed at any particular political party however does it worry anyone else that we're in this present situation and seemingly those in power are struggling to come up with solutions and are having to do it on the hop? When we were (for all intents and purposes) taken into this war isn't there a department that sits there and has a think about what the long term ramifications of it might be?

We then started with sanctions on Russia and surely we knew that, other than a physical war, the only weapon they had would be energy given how reliant most parts of Europe are on it. I would have thought a department that deals with energy security or such like would have run all sorts of scenarios of what would happen if Russia turned off the taps, what would that mean for the countries who are reliant on it and the wider outlook on what it would do to the market. It can't have come as any surprise that when we started the sanctions that Russia started to threaten everyone with the only real weapon they had i.e. energy. Yet it seems to have come as a surprise and seemingly no draft plans were there of what we could do to mitigate this. Appreciate that this might be too simplistic a viewpoint but does worry me that our longer term planning seems pretty average.

Here is a potential answer of what happens when we run out of gas > https://twitter.com/i/events/1564506955925815297

 

[SocketRocket]

Here is a potential answer of what happens when we run out of gas > https://twitter.com/i/events/1564506955925815297

Sounds about what I would expect to happen.

If we use so much gas to generate electricity surely it would make sense to reduce electricity demand by turning off street lights, forcing offices etc to turn off unnecessary lights, air conditioning etc so that the gas fired generators could be scaled back. How about a temporary ban on charging Electric Cars (Only Kidding ?)

 

[PJ87]

Sounds about what I would expect to happen.

If we use so much gas to generate electricity surely it would make sense to reduce electricity demand by turning off street lights, forcing offices etc to turn off unnecessary lights, air conditioning etc so that the gas fired generators could be scaled back. How about a temporary ban on charging Electric Cars (Only Kidding ?)

Ironically vehicle to grid chargers are an important step to balancing our grid

Currently only Nissan leaf works I believe but the idea is they install a super fast charger on your house.. when grid needs balancing they nick charge off your battery (leaving enough on it) but then replace it soon as possible (super charging so wouldn't be long)

Another one is the Tesla energy plan where tesla charge their batteries you own overnight then nick the charge in the peak

 

[Crazyface]

I think what will happen is that loads will not be able to pay their bills and will fall in to debt. In two/three years time the then government will tell all energy companies to write all those debts off. £3500 for a years energy is bonkers. Loads will not be able to pay. It will be the only solution. Dare you risk not paying?????

 

[bobmac]

I think what will happen is that loads will not be able to pay their bills and will fall in to debt. In two/three years time the then government will tell all energy companies to write all those debts off. £3500 for a years energy is bonkers. Loads will not be able to pay. It will be the only solution. Dare you risk not paying?????

You've missed out the next increase in January, another 19%

 

[road2ruin]

I think what will happen is that loads will not be able to pay their bills and will fall in to debt. In two/three years time the then government will tell all energy companies to write all those debts off. £3500 for a years energy is bonkers. Loads will not be able to pay. It will be the only solution. Dare you risk not paying?????

I think you've already answered that with your opening sentence. Whilst there are bound to be a number who decide to refuse to pay as a protest that number is likely to be dwarfed by those who simply cannot pay and that number will increase considerably in January when we have the next increase.

It amazes me that those in power still trot out the line of the help that's coming (£400.00 etc) for the winter that was based on a cap of £1,900 odd. The cap is already 80% up on that and expected to be another 50% in January.

You've missed out the next increase in January, another 19%

I wish it were 19%, the current prediction is a 51% increase.

 

[bobmac]

I wish it were 19%, the current prediction is a 51% increase.

I've seen two figures.... 19% and 51%

I guess I'm just being hopeful it's the lower number

From a current cap of £1,971, ($2,383) the firm expects prices to rise to £3,582 ($4,331) from October 2022, and £4,266 ($5,158) from January 2023

https://www.power-technology.com/news/uk-energy-tariff-price-cap-rise-cornwall-insight/

 

[Marshy77]

I've seen two figures.... 19% and 51%

I guess I'm just being hopeful it's the lower number

From a current cap of £1,971, ($2,383) the firm expects prices to rise to £3,582 ($4,331) from October 2022, and £4,266 ($5,158) from January 2023

https://www.power-technology.com/news/uk-energy-tariff-price-cap-rise-cornwall-insight/

Martin Lewis reporting a 52% increase!

 

[road2ruin]

I've seen two figures.... 19% and 51%

I guess I'm just being hopeful it's the lower number

From a current cap of £1,971, ($2,383) the firm expects prices to rise to £3,582 ($4,331) from October 2022, and £4,266 ($5,158) from January 2023

https://www.power-technology.com/news/uk-energy-tariff-price-cap-rise-cornwall-insight/

So far Cornwall Insights have been pretty accurate on the previous cap changes so their prediction of 51% is, unfortunately, more likely to be the figure than the 19%

This is what they've said for next year....

January 2023: £5386
April 2023: £6616

 

[bobmac]

So far Cornwall Insights have been pretty accurate on the previous cap changes so their prediction of 51% is, unfortunately, more likely to be the figure than the 19%

This is what they've said for next year....

January 2023: £5386
April 2023: £6616

Does it matter, if people can't afford to pay the increase in October, they sure as hell won't be able to afford any increase in January

 

[road2ruin]

Does it matter, if people can't afford to pay the increase in October, they sure as hell won't be able to afford any increase in January

I think it matters as the group who are unable to pay just keeps increasing, there are going to be those who can pay in October but cannot in January. Even when the cap 'stabilises' it's predicted to be at the £5,800 mark for the rest of next year.

 

[bobmac]

It won't matter to the rich people who are making the decisions