DMD's on phones - I wish they would sort it properly

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Rule 14.3 actually states...



So claiming it is against the rules to use them is a very weak argument

Awe not you as well HawkeyeMS

Oh well - so what is your rationale FOR allowing DMDs in comps other than a club LR allows them. Which is not really an argument - rather it is just a fact. And a fact I might argue based upon an incorrect premis. And then if there is confusion amongst players about what is or is not allowable then what is the problem with not allowing them in comps for the time being to mitigate against rule breaking.

 

[chrisd]

Many (most even) clubs have the LR in place - that is a fact
So to keep bringing the "DMD's are against the rules" is virtually irrelevent.

So I don't need to justify why I'm allowed to use because the rules (LR) allows me.

You have a problem with them so you have to make your case...

Where/what is the advantage ...?

Oh dear Imurg, you've woken Hogan up!

Every DMD thread, and he's posting the same old! We've heard his rant against DMD's every time they are mentioned. He won't accept you're argument no matter how well expressed and its best left that we will all embrace new technology, save time, save pacing and play quicker and (despite his view) within the rules!

 

[Imurg]

Awe not you as well HawkeyeMS

Oh well - so what is your rationale FOR allowing DMDs in comps other than a club LR allows them. Which is not really an argument - rather it is just a fact. And a fact I might argue based upon an incorrect premis. And then if there is confusion amongst players about what is or is not allowable then what is the problem with not allowing them in comps for the time being to mitigate against rule breaking.

So because the rules say we're allowed to use them (LR) we have to put forward a case for why we should be allowed to use them.....makes perfect sense to me - NOT!!

Where/what is the advantage in using a DMD...?
Getting a yardage with a DMD is the same as getting a yardage without one.

 

[fundy]

My argument for allowing them is that they provide the golfer with information that is already available freely to them (from yardage markers and yardage books, in addition to pacing out where needed) but provides this information in a faster format than not allowing them provides. Knowing the exact yardage and hitting it the exact yardage are 2 very different concepts and golf should be about the latter and not the former.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Awe not you as well HawkeyeMS

Oh well - so what is your rationale FOR allowing DMDs in comps other than a club LR allows them. Which is not really an argument - rather it is just a fact. And a fact I might argue based upon an incorrect premis. And then if there is confusion amongst players about what is or is not allowable then what is the problem with not allowing them in comps for the time being to mitigate against rule breaking.

Sorry mate, I wasn't going to

My rationale is that distance information is considered factual information so a DMD is just another means of providing that information, and it is quicker at obtaining it. I stood next to Darren Clarke on the 17th at Wentworth on the Friday of this years BMW PGA after he hit his ball in the trees ( come to think of it, I spent more time with him then than I did on Monday ) and waited an age for his caddy to run up the fairway with his yardage book, find the nearest sprinkler head work out the distance to where he thought the best layup was and then pace back to where DC was. The whole process took about 3 minutes. A GPS would have done the job in seconds and the information would be the same

 

[ger147]

And even more ironic as these days, most if not all of the yardages in the caddy's book will have at least been checked against if not obtained by using a DMD when the caddy was putting the book together.

 

[chrisd]

I was watching Darren Clarke on the range at Wentworth 3 years ago when he actually bought, and paid for, a Nikon laser DMD!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Oh well - if it's factual information and therefore do not provide anyone with any advantage then why do I see players using them when standing beside 150yd posts or beside sprinkler heads with yardages marked on. And yet there is at least one advantage admitted to as HawkeyeMS has stated - speed. Truth is I think that we all know that in a club competition speed of play isn't generally determined by working out distances - it's just one factor and not perhaps the major one. So I'd say they make 'stuff all' difference to speed of play in a comp - a bit but in the great scheme of things not a lot.

Ah well. As I said - I have accepted that I will not win this one. DMDers will, it seems, forever live in strange land of denial that their DMD gives them any advantage of any sort over the DMDless. Which I find rather curious

However a temporary ban until we sort out what can and can't be used? Now - we can't all afford dedicated DMDs and we really shouldn't encourage or facilitate rule breaking (deliberately or through ignorance) through use of rule-breaking phones and apps should we? Surely we would all wish to avoid such things

 

[chrisd]

Oh well - if it's factual information and therefore do not provide anyone with any advantage then why do I see players using them when standing beside 150yd posts or beside sprinkler heads with yardages marked on. And yet there is at least one advantage admitted to as HawkeyeMS has stated - speed. Truth is I think that we all know that in a club competition speed of play isn't generally determined by working out distances - it's just one factor and not perhaps the major one. So I'd say they make 'stuff all' difference to speed of play in a comp - a bit but in the great scheme of things not a lot.

Ah well. As I said - I have accepted that I will not win this one. DMDers will, it seems, forever live in strange land of denial that their DMD gives them any advantage of any sort over the DMDless. Which I find rather curious

However a temporary ban until we sort out what can and can't be used? Now - we can't all afford dedicated DMDs and we really shouldn't encourage or facilitate rule breaking (deliberately or through ignorance) through use of rule-breaking phones and apps should we? Surely we would all wish to avoid such things

Still the same old stuff, you really have to accept that most of us have moved from the 18th century!

DMD's are quicker than a yardage book or pacing

They do not break the rules

Many 150 yard markers are wrong

They do not give an advantage as everyone is entitled to have and use one

We don't need a temporary ban to " sort things out" it just needs doing


I don't mean to be rude Hogan but we've been through this a dozen times and if you want to live with your head in the sand........

 

[pbrown7582]

Still the same old stuff, you really have to accept that most of us have moved from the 18th century!

DMD's are quicker than a yardage book or pacing

They do not break the rules

Many 150 yard markers are wrong

They do not give an advantage as everyone is entitled to have and use one

We don't need a temporary ban to " sort things out" it just needs doing


I don't mean to be rude Hogan but we've been through this a dozen times and if you want to live with your head in the sand........

Plus if it's a cost issue maybe all of us can't afford the latest adjustable incarnation of a driver, fairway, hybrid, or putter, do we ban those as well?

 

[North Mimms]

Why do need a ban until "it gets sorted out"?

It's perfectly clear- only dedicated DMDs comply with R&A rules if allowed under a local rule.
Pretty much every smart phone has features that make their use as a DMD against the rules.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Plus if it's a cost issue maybe all of us can't afford the latest adjustable incarnation of a driver, fairway, hybrid, or putter, do we ban those as well?

Or dare I say electric trollies

 

[chrisd]

Or dare I say electric trollies

No Hawkeye you don't dare! It's my most important device!

 

[pbrown7582]

No Hawkeye you don't dare! It's my most important device!

Isn't that the tape over the distance facility on it! :rofl:

 

[Imurg]

Ah well. As I said - I have accepted that I will not win this one. DMDers will, it seems, forever live in strange land of denial that their DMD gives them any advantage of any sort over the DMDless. Which I find rather curious

There seems to be only one person "In Denial" in this conversation

 

[chrisd]

Isn't that the tape over the distance facility on it! :rofl:

I can afford the device but struggling with cost of masking tape - that must give someone else an advantage!

 

[davidg2010uk]

Why do need a ban until "it gets sorted out"?

It's perfectly clear- only dedicated DMDs comply with R&A rules if allowed under a local rule.
Pretty much every smart phone has features that make their use as a DMD against the rules.

Exactly!

 

[Jungle]

This is quite timely actually.

A few weeks ago I was paired with a new member at our club for the medal. During the 1st few holes he pulled out his phone to use as a DMD. I suggested that it was against the rules to use a smart phone so he put it away and on we went. However our next meeting at the club he had asked one of the committee members and they had claimed the phone was fine.

I've got him again on Saturday so I expect he'll have the phone out. Am I wrong?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Still the same old stuff, you really have to accept that most of us have moved from the 18th century!

DMD's are quicker than a yardage book or pacing

They do not break the rules

Many 150 yard markers are wrong

They do not give an advantage as everyone is entitled to have and use one

We don't need a temporary ban to " sort things out" it just needs doing


I don't mean to be rude Hogan but we've been through this a dozen times and if you want to live with your head in the sand........

Ah well - so no advantage even although 150yd markers can be wrong in which case my pacing to the marker will not do me much good - so I will have to pace to the flag from my ball - which will make me very popular.

And I'll will have to do some fancy trigonometry if I'm pacing up and down slopes from my ball to the flag and will have to make sure my pacing is consistent and a yard - or at least consistent so I can do a conversion from paces to yds; and unlike most - everyone can't afford one.

And I must have forgot to mention that I have no issue with their use other than in comps - actually no - I did mention that.

Oh and no need for a temporary ban because everyone can be trusted to follow the local rule and the issue with phones isn't really an issue at all - which is good.

But that's all OK. Because DMDs give no advantage. Sorry for misunderstanding and trying to make a case for avoiding skewing things further from a level playing field - and unfortunate breaking of local rules.

And you haven't been rude

 

[NuShooz]

:temper:

never has such a smiley icon been so apt.

:rofl: