DMD's on phones - I wish they would sort it properly

[chrisd]

....... And before anyone says they have - no they havnt!


MashleyR7 and I played two really nice guys from away in the HDID pairs yesterday and we noticed after a couple of holes that both were using their IPhones as DMD's. Now personally I wouldn't care if the app actually told them which club to hit with and and as we were 5 up after 5 and won 8 and 7 we chose to ignore the matter anyway.

I stood next to one of the pair on the last tee and he used it and commented on a yardage and I politely pointed out the rule. They both said that their club allow them and its a personal matter of trust whether they use the compass etc. I said that I had been on the golf committee when they were introduced and that their club didnt have a say in which DMD's could or couldn't be used only whether they were allowed or not on their course and that the rules of golf specified legality of certain devices.

It was clear that the issue could escalate, I suggested they check the rules and said no more. Why oh why don't the R and A deal decisively with matter one way or another and allow any device, or, state firmly which ones can't be used? I, for one, don't want the bad feeling directed at me for pointing this out given how many times I see the rule broken.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It has been addressed though, this from the R&A...

The emergence of multi-functional devices that can provide additional information to golfers (that could, for example, further help the golfer to determine how to make his next stroke or that could otherwise affect his playing of the game) is a relatively new development. For the avoidance of doubt, the governing bodies do not believe that it is necessary or appropriate for the Rules of Golf to allow all such devices. The following points clarify how the rules will be applied:

Distance-measuring devices (i.e., devices whose primary function is to measure distance) may continue to be used only if the local rule is in effect.
When the local rule is in effect, distance-measuring devices must be limited to measuring distance only. The use of a distance-measuring device would constitute a breach of the Rules if:
The device has the capability of gauging or measuring other conditions that might affect play (e.g., wind speed, gradient, temperature, etc), or;
The device has some other non-conforming feature, including, but not limited to, recommendations that might assist the player in making a stroke or in his play, such as club selection, type of shot to be played (e.g., punch shot, pitch and run, etc.), or green reading (i.e., a recommended line of putt), or other advice-related matters. However, it is permissible to use such a device, during a stipulated round, to access distance information from previous rounds that has been processed prior to the commencement of the current round (e.g., a chart of all club yardages), or;
The device has the capability to assist in calculating the effective distance between two points (i.e., distance after considering gradient, wind speed and/or direction, temperature or other environmental factors).
There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.
Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e., devices that are primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may be used as follows:
The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g., as a communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club/course regulations and the rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision 14-3/16.
When the local rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used. As above, the rules on advice-related communications (including the use of the internet) still apply.

So basically if the device has non-conforming features whether used or not, they can't be allowed under local rule.

 

[Hobbit]

The mighty Hawk covers it. But just to add another reason why the decision on multi-functional devices has been made. Various apps come out at different times, and to say yes to an iphone type device today might mean saying no to it tomorrow because of a new app.

 

[pbrown7582]

I was under the assumption the R &A issued a flow chart to clarify things last year?
Clubs cannot decide to ignore a rule they don't agree with.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Should have added, what actually needs to happen is for golf club committee's to understand the R&A's directive and implement it accordingly rather than making up their own local rules because the don't agree with the R&A - that is where the confusion comes from, not the R&A

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I was under the assumption the R &A issued a flow chart to clarify things last year?
Clubs cannot decide to ignore a rule they don't agree with.

You mean this...

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-in-Focus/Archive/2011/March/DMDs.aspx

 

[pbrown7582]

You mean this...

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-in-Focus/Archive/2011/March/DMDs.aspx

That's the one, :thup:


it's up on the board at the club and GM printed last year after it was issued.

 

[Imurg]

Should have added, what actually needs to happen is for golf club committee's to understand the R&A's directive and implement it accordingly rather than making up their own local rules because the don't agree with the R&A - that is where the confusion comes from, not the R&A

This is more of an issue than many people think.
As per the OP, the message obviously isn't getting through to clubs and it's not restricted to the DMD question
How many times do you hear that a single player has no standing or that you can't rake a bunker at all until you've played..?
Rule changes need to be communicated more vigourously, not just publishing a new rule book every few years - lets face it, not many people read it cover to cover, the plot is thin and the characterisation sucks. It's simply not a good read.

The R&A have to do more to educate clubs who have to do more to educate golfers...
Until then these problems will persist.
Anyone seen a non-conforming driver recently?
I have.......

 

[Jack_bfc]

So as long as I taker the compass app off the iphone (not sure why that would help anyway), its OK to use the Swing by Swing app.

You should be able to use anything you want IMO. As long as it doesnt hold up play..

 

[HawkeyeMS]

This is more of an issue than many people think.
As per the OP, the message obviously isn't getting through to clubs and it's not restricted to the DMD question
How many times do you hear that a single player has no standing or that you can't rake a bunker at all until you've played..?
Rule changes need to be communicated more vigourously, not just publishing a new rule book every few years - lets face it, not many people read it cover to cover, the plot is thin and the characterisation sucks. It's simply not a good read.

The R&A have to do more to educate clubs who have to do more to educate golfers...
Until then these problems will persist.
Anyone seen a non-conforming driver recently?
I have.......

You could also argue that if you are acting on your clubs committee in the area of rules, then you should make it your business to understand the changes and communicate the important changes to the members. You shouldn't be making up local rules as you wish.

The R&A can't be expected to know who has an illegal driver, it would be difficult for your club to check it. Also, no matter how hard they try, there will always be people who take no notice. It is up to all of us to enforce the rules, but having committee's making up their own simply doesn't help.

 

[davidy233]

So as long as I taker the compass app off the iphone (not sure why that would help anyway), its OK to use the Swing by Swing app.

You should be able to use anything you want IMO. As long as it doesnt hold up play..

Don't believe you can take the compass app of an iPhone

I've got Golfshot app on my iPhone which I use when on holiday for distances as i ain't paying Skycaddy Worldwide subscription for a couple of rounds a year - for competitions I use the Skycaddy.

Just play by the rules

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

So as long as I taker the compass app off the iphone (not sure why that would help anyway), its OK to use the Swing by Swing app.

You should be able to use anything you want IMO. As long as it doesnt hold up play..

I thought they are saying you can't use any app/phone, whether you remove the compass or not....

 

[chrisd]

This is more of an issue than many people think.
As per the OP, the message obviously isn't getting through to clubs and it's not restricted to the DMD question
How many times do you hear that a single player has no standing or that you can't rake a bunker at all until you've played..?
Rule changes need to be communicated more vigourously, not just publishing a new rule book every few years - lets face it, not many people read it cover to cover, the plot is thin and the characterisation sucks. It's simply not a good read.

The R&A have to do more to educate clubs who have to do more to educate golfers...
Until then these problems will persist.
Anyone seen a non-conforming driver recently?
I have.......

Exactly my point!

I know the rule as well as you guys, but, I see many people whipping out their phones on holes and its obvious that they aren't checking for missed calls. The EGU produced a guidance note on the matter that, for me, muddied the situation even more (taping over the non conforming parts when part of a trolley).

The rule is a mess, for the amateur knowing the wind direction and whether its going to rain in 10 minutes isn't going to improve their golf one jot - I say, make all devices ok for amateurs and then there will be no more problems and as a result the cost of golf will reduce as an app is generally cheaper than the cost of a specialist DMD.

 

[Jack_bfc]

So your saying you can use a £200 Garmin that gives accurate front middle and back and other distances, but I cant use a free app that just gives me a vague idea to the middle of the green.

And thats just because my phone can also tell me which way is north and whether its raining or not. Both things I can figure out for myself.

mmmmmmm thats makes sense.

 

[pbrown7582]

Don't believe you can take the compass app of an iPhone

I've got Golfshot app on my iPhone which I use when on holiday for distances as i ain't paying Skycaddy Worldwide subscription for a couple of rounds a year - for competitions I use the Skycaddy.

Just play by the rules

Your correct you can't take the compass off an iPhone it's not an app it's built in, in fact the vast majority of smart phones have in built compass, but it would be a legal minefield to ban all phone apps outright.

 

[pbrown7582]

So your saying you can use a £200 Garmin that gives accurate front middle and back and other distances, but I cant use a free app that just gives me a vague idea to the middle of the green.

And thats just because my phone can also tell me which way is north and whether its raining or not. Both things I can figure out for myself.

mmmmmmm thats makes sense.

Yes exactly that!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

So your saying you can use a £200 Garmin that gives accurate front middle and back and other distances, but I cant use a free app that just gives me a vague idea to the middle of the green.

And thats just because my phone can also tell me which way is north and whether its raining or not. Both things I can figure out for myself.

mmmmmmm thats makes sense.

No-one said it made sense, but it is the rule and until it is changed, it should be adhered to

 

[Hobbit]

So your saying you can use a £200 Garmin that gives accurate front middle and back and other distances, but I cant use a free app that just gives me a vague idea to the middle of the green.

And thats just because my phone can also tell me which way is north and whether its raining or not. Both things I can figure out for myself.

mmmmmmm thats makes sense.

If you're on a tree lined course, with holes going in various directions, and its a grey day you won't know which way is north. Now if you've seen the weather forecast and know which way the wind is coming from, even though at ground level you can't feel it because of the trees, you will know which side of the green to aim for to allow for the wind.

In reality, for the vast majority of us hackers it doesn't make much odds what we know. However, it is a rule and you can't pick and choose which rules you follow and which rules to ignore.

 

[Jack_bfc]

I will immedialtley DQ myself from every comp this year then...
:rofl:

 

[gryffindor]

There may already be an app that does this - but assuming the phone knows exactly where you are on the course, and you tell it what club you hit each shot, over a period of time it can build up a database and then start offering info such as 'you have a 76% success rate of hitting that green from here with your 6 iron' or 'You end up out of bounds 43% of the time here - take a 3 wood!'

Would this now mean the the phone is offering advice?