DMD's on phones - I wish they would sort it properly

[HawkeyeMS]

But you have to define 'dedicated' - and as with any definition therein lie a can of worms. That said - you are going in a better direction with this suggestion.

However until things are sorted out the simplest and obvious way is simply to say no to any DMD in competitive golf. Nothing could be simpler.

Note that I'm specific about comps - I have no issues at all on their use in casual/friendly/practice golf.

It would be fairly easy to define a dedicated GPS I would have thought, anything that is designed for the sole purpose of providing yardages on golf courses and does nothing else (except maybe tell the time). it would also not be hard for the R&A to have an approved list as they do with drivers.

 

[ger147]

Well I do. And if you think of the practical application of DMDs and yardage books you'll soon see the difference.

I'm sorry, there is no difference to me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You'd be in the minority at every club I know of and obviously were at yours - for the reason you quoted.

Yes it would be simpler - and is within a Club's power to do so. But they choose not to (again, for the reason you quoted). In a non-competitive round, I'd have no issue with someone using a phone DMD app. In a Strokeplay comp, I'd point out the potential breach. In a Match, I'd actually ignore the breach - as I'm entitled to do! I'd point out the potential problem afterwards though!

Not sure what reason I quoted?

I know I am in the minority but that doesn't make me wrong. However I accept DMDs cannot be uninvented and so are here to stay. And I accept that use of DMDs in competitions will in general be allowed.

However if I have to accept these things - the latter in particular - I want to know that whatever is being used is being used within the rules. At the moment this is clearly not the case and rule breaches are happening all the time. Until there is complete clarity and understanding I do not think it unreasonable for a clear and obvious source of rule breaking to be removed from competitive golf. It's what you'd do in most other spheres of life. If there was a risk of things going badly wrong through using something you didnt really understand, and didn't actually need to use - you either wouldn't use it or would be prevented from using it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm sorry, there is no difference to me.

OK - so against a strong wind I slice my tee shot miles to the far side of an adjacent fairway and my line to the hole is across trees and all sorts of rubbish. I have never been there before and so have no idea of distance. Explain to me how a DMD and yardage chart can equally help me sort out my distance to go to the flag.

[Post POST edit] Darn! Even when I have admitted defeat I can't stop myself rising to the bait

 

[fundy]

The rules bods will not want to open up shot assessment to a technology free-for-all - even for casual golf - as that will simply be the precursor to demands that the technology be used in comps.

That would be fine by me tbh

I watched the Europro tour at Collingtree last week, DMDs were permitted. So much more refreshing to see how quickly these pros got a numbers pulled a club and hit it compared to the main tour pros who have to refer to a yardage book and the caddie 4 or 5 times before they can decide what to hit. If it speeds up the game, which at that level it apparently seems to, then Im all for it

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That would be fine by me tbh

So use of ANY and ALL technology would be OK - squinty thinking IMO.

 

[davidy233]

My new app is telling me I am 35.4 miles from the centre of the first green I will be playing tomorrow morning!!!

And its a 'friendly' society type stableford comp. So I think i wil be able to use it without upsetting the 'comittee'

I can beat that - my Golfshot app tells me I'm 1,362 miles from the first tee at Penina- the next course I'll play using it (in September) - loaded it up yesterday to have a look at the overview of the holes - sad but true :mmm:

Skycaddy is charging up for my match at Monifieth tonight

 

[ger147]

OK - so against a strong wind I slice my tee shot miles to the far side of an adjacent fairway and my line to the hole is across trees and all sorts of rubbish. I have never been there before and so have no idea of distance. Explain to me how a DMD and yardage chart can equally help me sort out my distance to go to the flag.

If you don't have that distance on your yardage chart that's your own fault. You're allowed to measure it if you like, if you choose not to that's your own decision.

As I said, absolutely no difference to me. You can have as much info in a yardage book that you get from a DMD. It's the same info you get using both.

 

[Colin L]

Until there is complete clarity and understanding ....

Is this not the crux of the matter. There is complete clarity (what is not clear in Decision 14-3/0.5?) but there is far from complete understanding. Apart from the fact that this could be said of most rules, this one seems particularly prone to confusion mainly, I suspect because people make it over-complicated in an effort to push the boundaries, rather than there being an inherent difficulty in understanding the basic matter - if allowed by local rule, you can only measure distance with a device that only measures distance. Nothing else that could help your play.

 

[duncan mackie]

But surely this is exactly why people get confused. I can carry a compass on its own and be trusted not to use it, but if I carry it within my mobile phone then I clearly cant be trusted to not use it as it then renders my mobile phone dmd as non conforming to the local rule

you clearly aren't confused, and have explained it al in one small paragraph - the rule's clear, people (who want to use mobiles as DMDs) don't like it; completely understandable.

 

[Imurg]

Surprise, surprise, SwingsitlikeHogan is against DMD's.......get over it. DMD's are electronic yardage books. If you're 70 yards offline you can use your book to work out how far you have to go, it just takes longer than using a DMD.

The message isn't particularly vague, it just seems to get interpretted incorrectly somehow. That and Clubs don't push it down the throats of Members...

 

[Foxholer]

OK - so against a strong wind I slice my tee shot miles to the far side of an adjacent fairway and my line to the hole is across trees and all sorts of rubbish. I have never been there before and so have no idea of distance. Explain to me how a DMD and yardage chart can equally help me sort out my distance to go to the flag.

[Post POST edit] Darn! Even when I have admitted defeat I can't stop myself rising to the bait

Just because you are out-numbered doesn't mean the argument isn't reasonable!

Euro-Pro Tour has very few proper caddies so player does all he distance calcs etc. as well as Cclub selection and hitting the shot. DMDs were found to significantly improve Pace of Play in that tour.

As for the situation you describe...You are entitled to measure by any method - even by pacint to a point that is on the course guide. That is exactly what Tour Caddies do! You could also move/estimate to an equivalent place on the correct hole and get yardage from there. DMD simply speeds up the process. Like Lasers, your approach depends on actually having a 'view' of the target - albeit in your head!

 

[Region3]

If the R&A were to suddenly allow smartphones to be used as DMD's, very soon afterwards you might have apps that collected information from weather stations and coupled it with it's own information from the compass and GPS signal, to tell you exactly how far you need a club for allowing for wind, temperature and elevation change.

Then they would have to ban it again.

 

[Mungoscorner]

I have an app on my phone that i use for practice rounds, it does nothing more than tell me the yardage to front, middle, back of green, and to certain hazards on the course (bunkers, ditche's etc)
To be quite honest i don't have a spare £200 rattling around in my golf bag that i can use to buy a dedicated DMD, which is why i use my phone.
As for the argument about the potential to use other features on the phone to assist, i thought golf was a game of trust ? Maybe we should ban all comps that aren't drawn, maybe we should never allow anybody to look for there ball alone, maybe we should have a scrutineer at the first tee on every course checking the grooves on players clubs ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you don't have that distance on your yardage chart that's your own fault. You're allowed to measure it if you like, if you choose not to that's your own decision.

Well that statement rather proves my point - as it's my own fault if I don't go out on a course and for each hole have paced out the distances to the flag from every point I could be off the tee.

I do wish that golfers using DMDs would stop being in denial about this and just admit that DMDs give them an advantage over players not using one. Just admit it.

I have accepted that as Canute could not stop the tide coming in I cannot stop the waves of DMDs coming to golf. I just want them to be used in accordance with the rules. Until that situation can be reached without too much disagrement about what is and what isn't allowed - then just not permit their use in comps.

BTW DMDs would not be BANNED from comps because the default in the rules is that they are BANNED. A Local Rule can ALLOW. So just limit the scope of the Local Rule to non-competition golf for club competitions. I'm OK with them for Open comps.

 

[ger147]

Well that statement rather proves my point - as it's my own fault if I don't go out on a course and for each hole have paced out the distances to the flag from every point I could be off the tee.

It doesn't - your yardage chart and DMD both can be used to tell you how far you are from the hole. All DMD's do is save time during a round for everyone.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Surprise, surprise, SwingsitlikeHogan is against DMD's.......get over it. DMD's are electronic yardage books. If you're 70 yards offline you can use your book to work out how far you have to go, it just takes longer than using a DMD.

I have accepted it. But when challenged I will state my point of view - DMDs are electronic yardage books in theory but not in practice. That said I accept their use is beneficial in casual golf or Open competitions.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If the R&A were to suddenly allow smartphones to be used as DMD's, very soon afterwards you might have apps that collected information from weather stations and coupled it with it's own information from the compass and GPS signal, to tell you exactly how far you need a club for allowing for wind, temperature and elevation change.

Then they would have to ban it again.

I like your thinking - straight not squinty

 

[ger147]

A very short excerpt from the joint R&A/USGA statement on Measuring Devices:

"Permitting the use of a measuring device to provide the same information that can be obtained through use of a yardage book or on-course markings is not considered to diminish the skill level required to play the game."

A link to the full statement below:
http://www.randa.org/en/equipment/e...er/joint-statement-on-electronic-devices.aspx

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

To be quite honest i don't have a spare £200 rattling around in my golf bag that i can use to buy a dedicated DMD

I am afraid that you will find that this reasoning holds no water. You play golf - you buy golf clubs - you may be a member of a golf club - you can afford a DMD.