DMD's on phones - I wish they would sort it properly

[HawkeyeMS]

I will immedialtley DQ myself from every comp this year then...
:rofl:

Are there any other rules you break because you don't like them?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You should be able to use anything you want IMO. As long as it doesnt hold up play..

Or even simpler - just not allow any DMD in competitive golf. The confusion and rule breaking that is going on (deliberate or through ignorance and exemplified in this brief thread) is actually a beyond a joke.

 

[Jack_bfc]

Ok fella, I was trying to be mildy amusing on a fairly lighthearted matter IMO.

Wind your neck in.

I would, and have never knowingly ignored, or broken a local or R+A rule just because I didnt agree with it.

And I will pull up every golfer I see using similar devices in comps from now on. Is that ok now..

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Ok fella, I was trying to be mildy amusing on a fairly lighthearted matter IMO.

Wind your neck in.

I would, and have never knowingly ignored, or broken a local or R+A rule just because I didnt agree with it.

And I will pull up every golfer I see using similar devices in comps from now on. Is that ok now..

Apologies, it came accross that you weren't taking it seriously, my mistake.

 

[pbrown7582]

Ok fella, I was trying to be mildy amusing on a fairly lighthearted matter IMO.

Wind your neck in.
I would, and have never knowingly ignored, or broken a local or R+A rule just because I didnt agree with it.
And I will pull up every golfer I see using similar devices in comps from now on. Is that ok now..

To be fair I read your post the same way missed the light hearted side and was just about to post similiar to hawkeye.

 

[cookelad]

I still find it funny that the inbuilt compass make a phone illegal as a DMD when just about every course planner I've ever bought tells me which direction is North (forgetting my inbuilt compass - yes I can tell which way is approx North when surrounded by trees on a cloudy day)

I use a Bushnell BTW so it makes no odds to me personally!

 

[mefromhere]

Hi all, have been meaning to ask this question for a while but as the topic has come up now it seems the perfect time to ask. Is it against the rules to carry an actual compass with you on the course? As has been stated above, any yardage chart usually tells you which way it is anyway and if the scorecard has a layout of the course on the back then that usually does too!

As a secondary question, I have a phone that I am no longer using as a phone, so has no sim card in it and is therefore pretty useless for everything other than the GPS function still works. Could that now be classed as legal to use as it has no way of connecting to any temperature, wind, slope measuring device?

 

[ger147]

Or even simpler - just not allow any DMD in competitive golf. The confusion and rule breaking that is going on (deliberate or through ignorance and exemplified in this brief thread) is actually a beyond a joke.

I don't see why a dedicated DMD is any different to a yardage book which is allowed.

 

[fundy]

Hi all, have been meaning to ask this question for a while but as the topic has come up now it seems the perfect time to ask. Is it against the rules to carry an actual compass with you on the course? As has been stated above, any yardage chart usually tells you which way it is anyway and if the scorecard has a layout of the course on the back then that usually does too!

As a secondary question, I have a phone that I am no longer using as a phone, so has no sim card in it and is therefore pretty useless for everything other than the GPS function still works. Could that now be classed as legal to use as it has no way of connecting to any temperature, wind, slope measuring device?

Welcome to the forum

No you cant carry a compass, falls under rule 14-3 (artifical devices)

No again on the phone, the fact that it has no Sim is irrelevant to the rule, all that is important is the functionality that is in the phone (ie if it has a compass built in)

 

[fundy]

Or even simpler - just not allow any DMD in competitive golf. The confusion and rule breaking that is going on (deliberate or through ignorance and exemplified in this brief thread) is actually a beyond a joke.

Or even simpler just allow DMDs, including gps, phones, lasers etc within the rules of golf unless outlawed in the competition rules

 

[Foxholer]

....... And before anyone says they have - no they havnt!


MashleyR7 and I played two really nice guys from away in the HDID pairs yesterday and we noticed after a couple of holes that both were using their IPhones as DMD's. Now personally I wouldn't care if the app actually told them which club to hit with and and as we were 5 up after 5 and won 8 and 7 we chose to ignore the matter anyway.

I stood next to one of the pair on the last tee and he used it and commented on a yardage and I politely pointed out the rule. They both said that their club allow them and its a personal matter of trust whether they use the compass etc. I said that I had been on the golf committee when they were introduced and that their club didnt have a say in which DMD's could or couldn't be used only whether they were allowed or not on their course and that the rules of golf specified legality of certain devices.

It was clear that the issue could escalate, I suggested they check the rules and said no more. Why oh why don't the R and A deal decisively with matter one way or another and allow any device, or, state firmly which ones can't be used? I, for one, don't want the bad feeling directed at me for pointing this out given how many times I see the rule broken.

I trust you enforced the appropriate penalty then!

Or did you agree to waive it!

Had you continued to ignore the breach until the match was over (maybe it was when you raised the issue) then I believe no problem.

However, you should definitely get the message across that phones with DMDs are almost certain to not conform to the rules! I don't believe any do, and doubt they will.

 

[Colin L]

Welcome to the forum

No you cant carry a compass, falls under rule 14-3 (artifical devices)

To be exact, there is nothing in 14-3 to prevent you from carrying a compass. if you used it to assist you in your play or for gauging conditions that could affect your play, only then you are in breach of 14-3. .

I do question what is so complicated in the DMD matter and wonder if that flowchart makes the business seem more complex than it is.

3 steps to simple understanding:

1. Rule 14-3 clearly tells us using a DMD is not permitted.
2.Decision 14-3/0.5 clearly tells a Committee can introduce a local rule permitting the use of a DMD provided it is a DMD and nothing else.
3. "Nothing else" means if there is any other function on a device that might assist a player it can't be used to measure distance even if the local rule is in place.

 

[fundy]

To be exact, there is nothing in 14-3 to prevent you from carrying a compass. if you used it to assist you in your play or for gauging conditions that could affect your play, only then you are in breach of 14-3. .

I do question what is so complicated in the DMD matter and wonder if that flowchart makes the business seem more complex than it is.

3 steps to simple understanding:

1. Rule 14-3 clearly tells us using a DMD is not permitted.
2.Decision 14-3/0.5 clearly tells a Committee can introduce a local rule permitting the use of a DMD provided it is a DMD and nothing else.
3. "Nothing else" means if there is any other function on a device that might assist a player it can't be used to measure distance even if the local rule is in place.

But surely this is exactly why people get confused. I can carry a compass on its own and be trusted not to use it, but if I carry it within my mobile phone then I clearly cant be trusted to not use it as it then renders my mobile phone dmd as non conforming to the local rule

 

[Foxholer]

I do question what is so complicated in the DMD matter and wonder if that flowchart makes the business seem more complex than it is.

The queries I have about the R&A ruling - which I fully accept btw. -are these.

What's the difference between having a compass available (but illegal) and checking with the one on a course guide - and the Professional ones I have all have the 'compass direction' included on the hole details.

How is the exact temperature or wind speed, as opposed to the general feel of these, at the point a shot about to be played really going to have an influence on a decision about a shot that is likely to travel 100 to 300 yard where conditions can, and almost certainly will, be will be different!

It strikes me as rather a cop-out, protection of some businesses and an attempt to limit the (laudable maybe) encroachment of other 'devices' into the game.

It' the widespread and cheap availability of DMD software that's highlighting the issue.

 

[Jack_bfc]

My new app is telling me I am 35.4 miles from the centre of the first green I will be playing tomorrow morning!!!

And its a 'friendly' society type stableford comp. So I think i wil be able to use it without upsetting the 'comittee'

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't see why a dedicated DMD is any different to a yardage book which is allowed.

Well I do. And if you think of the practical application of DMDs and yardage books you'll soon see the difference.

My point in this thread is that with all the apparent confusion and rule-breaking going on shouldn't clubs just state in their local rule that DMDs can be used on the course for casual play but not in competitive play. That way there can be no rule breaking and no issue and no concern or upset being caused. Simple.

If and probably when the rules in respect of DMDs are nailed and fully understood, then that rule can be relaxed to include use of DMDs in comps - though I would disagree with it being so relaxed.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Well I do. And if you think of the practical application of DMDs and yardage books you'll soon see the difference.

My point in this thread is that with all the apparent confusion and rule-breaking going on shouldn't clubs just state in their local rule that DMDs can be used on the course for casual play but not in competitive play. That way there can be no rule breaking and no issue and no concern or upset being caused. Simple.

Or just say only dedicated DMDs are allowed during comp, that would be equally simple.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Or even simpler just allow DMDs, including gps, phones, lasers etc within the rules of golf unless outlawed in the competition rules

The rules bods will not want to open up shot assessment to a technology free-for-all - even for casual golf - as that will simply be the precursor to demands that the technology be used in comps.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Or just say only dedicated DMDs are allowed during comp, that would be equally simple.

But you have to define 'dedicated' - and as with any definition therein lie a can of worms. That said - you are going in a better direction with this suggestion.

However until things are sorted out the simplest and obvious way is simply to say no to any DMD in competitive golf. Nothing could be simpler.

Note that I'm specific about comps - I have no issues at all on their use in casual/friendly/practice golf.

 

[Foxholer]

Well I do. And if you think of the practical application of DMDs and yardage books you'll soon see the difference.

My point in this thread is that with all the apparent confusion and rule-breaking going on shouldn't clubs just state in their local rule that DMDs can be used on the course for casual play but not in competitive play. That way there can be no rule breaking and no issue and no concern or upset being caused. Simple.

If and probably when the rules in respect of DMDs are nailed and fully understood, then that rule can be relaxed to include use of DMDs in comps - though I would disagree with it being so relaxed.

You'd be in the minority at every club I know of and obviously were at yours - for the reason you quoted.

Yes it would be simpler - and is within a Club's power to do so. But they choose not to (again, for the reason you quoted). In a non-competitive round, I'd have no issue with someone using a phone DMD app. In a Strokeplay comp, I'd point out the potential breach. In a Match, I'd actually ignore the breach - as I'm entitled to do! I'd point out the potential problem afterwards though!