Declaring a ball lost?

[Opengav]

Can you simply declare a ball lost?

eg. My opponent plays a Provisional ball on a par 4 and drives the green. After 2 minutes he declares his ball lost and walks towards his provisional ball, finding his original ball en route. As the 5 minutes were not up and as he had not played another stroke with his provisional ball which was closer to the hole, surely his original ball is still the ball in play,regardless of whether he declared it lost or not?

 

[duncan mackie]

Can you simply declare a ball lost?

eg. My opponent plays a Provisional ball on a par 4 and drives the green. After 2 minutes he declares his ball lost and walks towards his provisional ball, finding his original ball en route. As the 5 minutes were not up and as he had not played another stroke with his provisional ball which was closer to the hole, surely his original ball is still the ball in play,regardless of whether he declared it lost or not?

as you set this out -

1. the original ball is the ball in play, the provisional is out of play.
2. the end.

 

[pbrown7582]

You are correct you cannot declare a ball lost if you find your original within 5 minutes you have to continue with it.

 

[Fish]

I believe, and Duncan will correct me if I'm wrong, but, there's nothing stopping you from NOT actually looking for the ball at all!

If he drove the green, there was possibly no advantage in finding it, other than its own cost as chipping out and then making the green still had him on the green in 3.

 

[Ethan]

as you set this out -

1. the original ball is the ball in play, the provisional is out of play.
2. the end.

This.

If he had managed to play his second (4th) shot with the provo before the original was found then the Provo would have become the ball in play.

But he didn't. So tough luck.

 

[Opengav]

I agree totally, I didn't really pull him up on it let him play provisional as it was only a bounce game, but told him that if it had been a competition he would have had to play it, but was told that was not the case, as he had declared it lost. Didn't think that was the case so sought I'd seek advice from people who know better than me. Cheers. (I wasn't helping look as I told him it would better not to find it)

 

[chrisd]

I believe, and Duncan will correct me if I'm wrong, but, there's nothing stopping you from NOT actually looking for the ball at all!

If he drove the green, there was possibly no advantage in finding it, other than its own cost as chipping out and then making the green still had him on the green in 3.

No, you can't be required to search for your ball but you can't stop others doing so nd if its found within 5 mins you are required to identify it and play it - assuming that you havnt played the provisional when its nearer the hole than you expect the original ball to be

 

[Fish]

No, you can't be required to search for your ball but you can't stop others doing so nd if its found within 5 mins you are required to identify it and play it - assuming that you havnt played the provisional when its nearer the hole than you expect the original ball to be

I'm not sure I go along with that Chris!

[R27] If you hit a wonderful shot with your provisional ball, it could be to your advantage not to find the original ball at all. In this case, you can simply not search for the first ball. However, you cannot pronounce the first ball "lost" by declaration.

Nothing about "others" looking for it and I'm sure I wouldn't be happy if they did, or indeed were allowed to!!

 

[Imurg]

Can be useful in Matchplay - in Strokeplay I wouldn't search if the player didn't want to find it

 

[Val]

I'm not sure I go along with that Chris!

[R27] If you hit a wonderful shot with your provisional ball, it could be to your advantage not to find the original ball at all. In this case, you can simply not search for the first ball. However, you cannot pronounce the first ball "lost" by declaration.

Nothing about "others" looking for it and I'm sure I wouldn't be happy if they did, or indeed were allowed to!!

If the original is found within the time scale by anyone it must be identified by the player regardless of how good his provisional is.

 

[Fish]

Can be useful in Matchplay - in Strokeplay I wouldn't search if the player didn't want to find it

So in a Matchplay scenario he knocks one well into the cabbage and then plays a provisional and says he's not bothering to look for the first one as his provisional is now in an excellent position, but, I can look for 5 minutes and if I find it he has to play it! Wow, wouldn't go down very well but if its in the rules oo:

 

[Val]

So in a Matchplay scenario he knocks one well into the cabbage and then plays a provisional and says he's not bothering to look for the first one as his provisional is now in an excellent position, but, I can look for 5 minutes and if I find it he has to play it! Wow, wouldn't go down very well but if its in the rules oo:

Correct, and If I was 1 down and 2 to play then I'd be searching.

 

[chrisd]

I'm not sure I go along with that Chris!

[R27] If you hit a wonderful shot with your provisional ball, it could be to your advantage not to find the original ball at all. In this case, you can simply not search for the first ball. However, you cannot pronounce the first ball "lost" by declaration.

Nothing about "others" looking for it and I'm sure I wouldn't be happy if they did, or indeed were allowed to!!

If your playing Matchplay or maybe a one on one stroke play, you can't stop anyone looking for your ball for 5 minutes. Usually in strokeplay and you tell your playing partners that your not going to look then they won't either.

Yesterday I tied with a playing partner in the monthly Stableford, it was always a tight score between us, had he, or I, lost our ball, the other would probably have searched longer than the ball loser may have wanted!

 

[chrisd]

So in a Matchplay scenario he knocks one well into the cabbage and then plays a provisional and says he's not bothering to look for the first one as his provisional is now in an excellent position, but, I can look for 5 minutes and if I find it he has to play it! Wow, wouldn't go down very well but if its in the rules oo:

Spot on. Why on a Matchplay game should you help the opponent to bet you?

 

[Fish]

Correct, and If I was 1 down and 2 to play then I'd be searching.

If your playing Matchplay or maybe a one on one stroke play, you can't stop anyone looking for your ball for 5 minutes. Usually in strokeplay and you tell your playing partners that your not going to look then they won't either.

Yesterday I tied with a playing partner in the monthly Stableford, it was always a tight score between us, had he, or I, lost our ball, the other would probably have searched longer than the ball loser may have wanted!

You learn something every day :thup:

 

[Tommo21]

If you are in matchplay or stroke play and the guy hits a poor shot then a prov ball. Because he hits the prov well then says he's not looking for the first ball I would tell him he should have said 3 off the tee. A prov ball is not there to give you an extra choice if you just happen to hit it well.

 

[Ian_S]

On the OP

You cannot 'declare' a ball lost. 'Lost' is a status that the rules of golf impart on the ball. You can make a ball lost, but you have to do it in the way the rules say - and declaring it lost isn't one of those ways.

 

[chrisd]

A prov ball is not there to give you an extra choice if you just happen to hit it well.

But thats precisely what it can turn out to be.

 

[Colin L]

If you are in matchplay or stroke play and the guy hits a poor shot then a prov ball. Because he hits the prov well then says he's not looking for the first ball I would tell him he should have said 3 off the tee. A prov ball is not there to give you an extra choice if you just happen to hit it well.

Assuming the first ball might be lost, what rule would you point to in order to back that up?

 

[Fish]

Assuming the first ball might be lost, what rule would you point to in order to back that up?

I've been looking for 20 minutes and can't find anything to support that either. It seems to me that if you can't declare a ball lost, you can only take a provisional, surely stating "3 off the tee" is a form of declaration to which I can't find any mention anywhere in the R&A Rules.