Provisional for suspected lost ball, then ball found but unplayable

[sjw]

This, pretty much. If your provisional is in a good place and it's very likely that your first ball isn't - don't even bother looking for it, just go straight to your provisional. Or, as jim8flog said, go to the provisional, hit it again which confirms it's the ball in play, then go and have a look for your first ball if you simply don't want to lose a ball.

If I had an opponent and they wanted to look, is it basically a race between me trying to play the next ball and them trying to find the first?

 

[chrisd]

Or, as jim8flog said, go to the provisional, hit it again which confirms it's the ball in play, then go and have a look for your first ball if you simply don't want to lose a ball.

Not necessarily, and you could get in a right mess

if your provisional isn't past where your original ball is, then your original ball, if found within the 3 minutes, is still the ball in play and you pick up the provisional and play on with your original ball.

 

[Orikoru]

If I had an opponent and they wanted to look, is it basically a race between me trying to play the next ball and them trying to find the first?

Funny as that sounds, I think it's a genuine possibility.

 

[Steven Rules]

walk forward to the provisional , play a shot with it then go back to find the first ball.

go to the provisional, hit it again which confirms it's the ball in play

Walking up and playing the provisional ball may not, in itself, be sufficient to make it the ball in play. In this scenario, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play only when it is played from a spot nearer the hole than where the original ball is estimated to be. It may be necessary to play the provisional ball more than once until this is achieved. (Rule 18.3c(2))

 

[Orikoru]

Walking up and playing the provisional ball may not, in itself, be sufficient to make it the ball in play. In this scenario, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play only when it is played from a spot nearer the hole than where the original ball is estimated to be. It may be necessary to play the provisional ball more than once until this is achieved. (Rule 18.3c(2))

Yeah I forgot about that. If you've hit the provis well and the first ball is in the crap though, I figure it is more likely to be nearer the hole than not.

If you've done that and hit the provisional, then your opponent finds your original ball (still within three minutes) - you claim your provisional was nearer the hole and they claim the original ball was nearer the hole and therefore is in play - how the hell do you resolve that one??

 

[chrisd]

Yeah I forgot about that. If you've hit the provis well and the first ball is in the crap though, I figure it is more likely to be nearer the hole than not.

If you've done that and hit the provisional, then your opponent finds your original ball (still within three minutes) - you claim your provisional was nearer the hole and they claim the original ball was nearer the hole and therefore is in play - how the hell do you resolve that one??

Use a Bushnell?

Let's face it, mostly it would be pretty obvious which ball is the nearest to the hole but measuring would work, as you really dont want to refer the matter to the Committee for a ruling

 

[Orikoru]

Use a Bushnell?

Let's face it, mostly it would be pretty obvious which ball is the nearest to the hole but measuring would work, as you really dont want to refer the matter to the Committee for a ruling

On the last part - it's pretty impossible for them to make a ruling anyway if they weren't there. They'd have no idea which ball was nearer.

 

[chrisd]

On the last part - it's pretty impossible for them to make a ruling anyway if they weren't there. They'd have no idea which ball was nearer.

No, they would have to listen to whatever evidence is given and make a decision but I think it's going to be pretty rare for 2,3 or 4 golfers to not be able to sensibly work out which one was nearer to resolve the matter and play on

 

[rulie]

Remember that Rue 18.3c(2) (When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play) refers to where the original ball is estimated to be. Where the original ball may be actually found is irrelevant.

 

[chrisd]

Remember that Rue 18.3c(2) (When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play) refers to where the original ball is estimated to be. Where the original ball may be actually found is irrelevant.

Wouldn't it become "relevant" if, and when, both balls were found and neither have been hit a second (or more) times. Surely "estimated" wouldn't overrule "known" in this case?

 

[jim8flog]

Wouldn't it become "relevant" if, and when, both balls were found and neither have been hit a second (or more) times. Surely "estimated" wouldn't overrule "known" in this case?

Totally irrelevant because the provisional ball is no longer in play.

 

[sjw]

Funny as that sounds, I think it's a genuine possibility.

Good job I have an electric trolley then!

 

[chrisd]

Totally irrelevant because the provisional ball is no longer in play.

Agreed, but Ori posted up a different scenario

 

[CliveW]

You can;t decarae a ball lost, you *can* stop looking

My mistake in selecting the wrong phrase. I do realise that you cannot declare a ball lost however my meaning was that by not spending time looking for the original if it was not obvious, and if you did you would have the scenario described by the OP.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If I had an opponent and they wanted to look, is it basically a race between me trying to play the next ball and them trying to find the first?

IMO though your opponent is perfectly within his rights to go look for your ball, if you had said that you weren’t going to look for your first ball and that you’ll continue with your provisional, then it would be seriously poor etiquette for him to go looking for it. Personally I would never do that, no matter what the match, even if it was tight with holes running out - but some might. But if it wasn’t a match, but some other competition, then I see no circumstances that would warrant a player looking for another’s ball when asked to not do so.

 

[rulie]

Wouldn't it become "relevant" if, and when, both balls were found and neither have been hit a second (or more) times. Surely "estimated" wouldn't overrule "known" in this case?

Here's what 18.3c(2) says (with my emphasis):
When Provisional Ball Is Played from Spot Nearer Hole Than Where Original Ball Is Estimated To Be. The original ball is no longer in play (even if found on the course before the end of the three-minute search time or is found nearer the hole than had been estimated) and is now a wrong ball that must not be played (see Rule 6.3c).

 

[jim8flog]

IMO though your opponent is perfectly within his rights to go look for your ball, if you had said that you weren’t going to look for your first ball and that you’ll continue with your provisional then, it would be seriously poor etiquette for him to go looking for it. Personally I would never do that, no matter what the match, even if it was tight with holes running out - but some might. But if it wasn’t a match, but some other competition, then I see no circumstances that would warrant a player looking for another’s ball when asked to not do so.

In a match play situation if it was me I would always look for the opponents ball, in a stroke play situation I would not. However I drive a buggy and very often I am off looking for another players ball that might be difficult to find to save time.

 

[Imurg]

Every time someone im playing with carves into jungle I always ask if we're looking for that or not.?
If they saw No.....I don't look.
If they've put a provisional in play I'd hate to find their ball in an impossible position that may require multiple drops or a trip back to the tee.
I would expect the same in return.?.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah I forgot about that. If you've hit the provis well and the first ball is in the crap though, I figure it is more likely to be nearer the hole than not.

If you've done that and hit the provisional, then your opponent finds your original ball (still within three minutes) - you claim your provisional was nearer the hole and they claim the original ball was nearer the hole and therefore is in play - how the hell do you resolve that one??

Laser.

 

[clubchamp98]

I have never met a golfer that goes looking for his ops ball if he opts to play his prov.
They are two shots worse off.
so finding his ball in a decent lie is counterproductive.

But some people would I’m sure.