Provisional ball allowed?

[berniethebolt]

So if my ball is heading towards a PA but there is a "slight" chance that it might be in the rough nearby, I can claim that the ball is probably lost in the rough and play a provisional. If it is in the PA then I proceed ion that basis and abandon the provisional?

 

[rulie]

So if my ball is heading towards a PA but there is a "slight" chance that it might be in the rough nearby, I can claim that the ball is probably lost in the rough and play a provisional. If it is in the PA then I proceed ion that basis and abandon the provisional?

If the original might be lost outside a penalty area or might be out of bounds, the player can play a provisional. If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in a penalty area, a provisional ball is not permitted and that second ball would become the ball in play under stroke and distance.
If a provisional ball is correctly played, it must be abandoned if the original ball is found within three minutes of beginning to search for it, or if it becomes known or virtually certain that the original is in a penalty area.

 

[Swango1980]

So if my ball is heading towards a PA but there is a "slight" chance that it might be in the rough nearby, I can claim that the ball is probably lost in the rough and play a provisional. If it is in the PA then I proceed ion that basis and abandon the provisional?

If you think ball could be lost in rough, yes you can play a provisional.

But, when you claim ball is lost in PA and want to play accordingly, I'd probably like to discuss what made you virtually certain it was in PA, given you thought it could be in rough after initial tee shot

 

[rulie]

If you think ball could be lost in rough, yes you can play a provisional.

But, when you claim ball is lost in PA and want to play accordingly, I'd probably like to discuss what made you virtually certain it was in PA, given you thought it could be in rough after initial tee shot

In that situation, are you playing or refereeing? Remember that players are not referees, in stroke play or match play.

 

[Swango1980]

In that situation, are you playing or refereeing? Remember that players are not referees, in stroke play or match play.

I didn't mean it as a referee.

But, given that it is unlikely a referee will be present, as a marker or someone in the group, I was simply saying I'd like to ask the question of the player.

Would that be OK, in terms of my responsibility to protect the field?

Obviously, the player can then justify whatever action they decide to take to me. Whether than means the question needs to be raised with Committee / referee depends on the situation I guess.

 

[rulie]

I didn't mean it as a referee.

But, given that it is unlikely a referee will be present, as a marker or someone in the group, I was simply saying I'd like to ask the question of the player.

Would that be OK, in terms of my responsibility to protect the field?

Obviously, the player can then justify whatever action they decide to take to me. Whether than means the question needs to be raised with Committee / referee depends on the situation I guess.

Markers are not referees either. If they see something that might be a Rules breach, they should/must bring it up with the Committee in the scoring area.
Of course, it is proper etiquette to prevent a fellow player from breaching a Rule.

 

[Swango1980]

Markers are not referees either. If they see something that might be a Rules breach, they should/must bring it up with the Committee in the scoring area.
Of course, it is proper etiquette to prevent a fellow player from breaching a Rule.

Exactly my point. I never said I would make a ruling. I simply said I would ask the question. That in itself may help the player from breaching the rule. And, if they proceed in a manner that still doesn't seem correct, that is when the matter can be raised with Committee. As I said.

 

[DickInShorts]

Markers are not referees either. If they see something that might be a Rules breach, they should/must bring it up with the Committee in the scoring area.
Of course, it is proper etiquette to prevent a fellow player from breaching a Rule.

I don’t think I’ve ever played a club competition (not an Open) where there are any committee members in the ‘scoring area’. When I’ve used cards it was a box in the locker room/clubhouse and more recently a computer in the clubhouse and currently outside on our phones between the 18th green and the car park!

 

[wjemather]

I don’t think I’ve ever played a club competition (not an Open) where there are any committee members in the ‘scoring area’. When I’ve used cards it was a box in the locker room/clubhouse and more recently a computer in the clubhouse and currently outside on our phones between the 18th green and the car park!

For convenience, club committees commonly delegate such responsibilities to the pro(s), and players should either report to them or the committee directly before submitting their scores.

 

[Orikoru]

I thought you could play a provisional whenever you want. You never know when you might lose one? It would be stupid to hit a provisional when the ball's on the green as you're wasting everyone's time, but I didn't know there was a rule against doing it.

 

[Swango1980]

I thought you could play a provisional whenever you want. You never know when you might lose one? It would be stupid to hit a provisional when the ball's on the green as you're wasting everyone's time, but I didn't know there was a rule against doing it.

There certainly is.

I suppose if there was no rule, players could technically just choose to hit a provisional anytime they wanted, despite knowing where the original ball is. Might be a cunning way to have a bit of a practice shot, disguised as a provisional?

 

[Orikoru]

There certainly is.

I suppose if there was no rule, players could technically just choose to hit a provisional anytime they wanted, despite knowing where the original ball is. Might be a cunning way to have a bit of a practice shot, disguised as a provisional?

That's what I mean. I have suspected my mate does this at times when he's sliced his drive. But, given that he has sliced it, you can't really call him out on it since it could be lost.

 

[Swango1980]

That's what I mean. I have suspected my mate does this at times when he's sliced his drive. But, given that he has sliced it, you can't really call him out on it since it could be lost.

Well, that would be fine.

I mean, there are times where I, or someone else, have said "that should be OK, but I'll hit a provisional just in case". After all, if you hit in in the trees, you never know. It could be under a leaf, under a tuft of rough or deflected somewhere you didn't expect and won't look. But, if he sliced his ball down the right side of the fairway, and you have certainty it is fine then there probably isn't justification in hitting a provisional

 

[Orikoru]

Well, that would be fine.

I mean, there are times where I, or someone else, have said "that should be OK, but I'll hit a provisional just in case". After all, if you hit in in the trees, you never know. It could be under a leaf, under a tuft of rough or deflected somewhere you didn't expect and won't look. But, if he sliced his ball down the right side of the fairway, and you have certainty it is fine then there probably isn't justification in hitting a provisional

Yeah, I think it's more of a two-birds-one-stone situation. I've done that myself on occasions, a bad drive which is in the rough, there's probably only a 5% chance of losing it but it still could happen, but you want to hit a provisional for practise as well anyway. If you nail that one it gives you confidence back. (False, misplaced confidence of course since we all know the provisional ball goes straight every time.)

It's just with my mate he does it quite often, maybe on a round where he's not driving great he'll have hit 5 provisionals across the round, but lost none of the original balls. I don't care enough to call him out on it anyway tbh, it was just a discussion point.