Provisional(s)

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes he did play two Provisionals off the tee...and yes he was entitled to play the first ball when it was found. What i meant was he found his ball before making a stroke at the 2nd provisional ball (which lay in the middle of the fairway).

No. Thats not what I said and it was not what was said in the OP.

Ok…misunderstood.

 

[Backache]

If he found his original ball within the 3 minutes allowed. The two adults should be publicly named and shamed, made to apologise to the junior and never allowed near a junior comp again. I’d be having a word with the club welfare officer.

They shouldn’t be making rules decisions if they are there to spectate. Did they by any chance have their own children playing in the same competition?

They should certainly apologise. But there is no welfare issue unless they were doing it maliciously.
Hopefully it will be a learning experience and contrition is shown as well as a genuine apology.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

They should certainly apologise. But there is no welfare issue unless they were doing it maliciously.
Hopefully it will be a learning experience and contrition is shown as well as a genuine apology.

I would report just in case there is another incident involving these adults. It then may start to show a pattern. There are many adults that will use their influence to manipulate situations in sport to suit an outcome desirable to them. Maybe this would help their child to win for example.

The club also have a responsibility to the children playing at their club.

They certainly should be spoken to about dishing out advice in the future.

 

[Mel Smooth]

My lad was given incorrect rules advice a couple of years back - again by two adults - I strictly told him to ring the pro's shop for advice and clarification if he's ever in that situation again.

Unfortunately for the lad in this instance, he's made the wrong decision picking up his original ball.

 

[rulefan]

But he didnt, he went and continued play with his 2nd provisional....the question is... how should the committee have ruled?

I know that was the ultimate question but was just giving some clues on to how to get there.

 

[Alan Clifford]

This is really sad. Could someone go and explain to the lad that adult golfers are not always right?

 

[rulefan]

DQ

 

[Deleted member 29109]

DQ

Maybe a ban for the rules infringement too! How to keep youngsters engaged in playing golf

Lots of other sports have modified rules to help introduce young children to their sports. Yet golf seemingly does nothing other than play a bit shorter course.

This appears to be another child’s experience of playing a sport ruined by adults.

 

[wjemather]

Maybe a ban for the rules infringement too! How to keep youngsters engaged in playing golf

Lots of other sports have modified rules to help introduce young children to their sports. Yet golf seemingly does nothing other than play a bit shorter course.

This appears to be another child’s experience of playing a sport ruined by adults.

As does golf, with formats such as Stableford and Maximum Score, which allow for an array of rules infractions without the DQ that applies in regular stroke play.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

As does golf, with formats such as Stableford and Maximum Score, which allow for an array of rules infractions without the DQ that applies in regular stroke play.

So no need at all for the call to DQ?

And those formats aren’t for young children. They are for adults who aren’t very good who can’t cope with having to count all of their shots!

 

[wjemather]

So no need at all for the call to DQ?

And those formats aren’t for young children. They are for adults who aren’t very good who can’t cope with having to count all of their shots!

I'm not sure anyone has asked for clarification on the format being played in the OP, but if regular stroke play, it's definitely a DQ (played wrong ball, not corrected).

Those formats are for everyone, but ideal for beginners (such as young children) who get little encouragement from having to go back to the tee half a dozen times, and hole out for high double digit scores in regular stroke play.

 

[rulie]

I'm not sure anyone has asked for clarification on the format being played in the OP, but if regular stroke play, it's definitely a DQ (played wrong ball, not corrected).

Those formats are for everyone, but ideal for beginners (such as young children) who get little encouragement from having to go back to the tee half a dozen times, and hole out for high double digit scores in regular stroke play.

It was pure stroke play (no Stableford or Max Score). One of the referees that was involved called me for guidance. The only answer, unfortunately, was DQ as you've noted. A bad start for a young player.

 

[tobybarker]

My lad was given incorrect rules advice a couple of years back - again by two adults - I strictly told him to ring the pro's shop for advice and clarification if he's ever in that situation again.

Unfortunately for the lad in this instance, he's made the wrong decision picking up his original ball.

Like "pro" shop staff know the rules....

 

[Mel Smooth]

Like "pro" shop staff know the rules....

Most will, especially as something as basic as this.

 

[Colin L]

Like "pro" shop staff know the rules....

The difference is, don't you think, that a ruling from the pro would have the status of a committee ruling and so a player would be protected against the consequences of its being wrong?

 

[NearHull]

The difference is, don't you think, that a ruling from the pro would have the status of a committee ruling and so a player would be protected against the consequences of its being wrong?

I think that is a natural assumption. Our Pro does sit on our Competition and Handicap Committee and hence represents the Committee.

 

[wjemather]

The difference is, don't you think, that a ruling from the pro would have the status of a committee ruling and so a player would be protected against the consequences of its being wrong?

While that is often the case with the head pro, it shouldn't be assumed; and it certainly shouldn't be assumed that everyone in the shop is authorised/knowledgable enough to give rulings.

Always seek out the committee not just someone believed to be an authority.

 

[rulefan]

While that is often the case with the head pro, it shouldn't be assumed, and it certainly shouldn't be assumed that anyone in the shop is authorised/knowledge enough to give rulings.

Always seek out the committee not just someone believed to be an authority.

In this case I assume the two adults were neither referees nor authorised to act on behalf of the committee, so I think the only alternative would have been to play 2 balls. However, I guess the young boy would not know the complexities of the rule and neither would the adults.
I hope the committee would have explained it as the backstop for strokeplay.

 

[RulesLurker]

I'm still intrigued as to WHY the adults told the boy he couldn't play the original ball? Is there any such info available?

 

[Colin L]

While that is often the case with the head pro, it shouldn't be assumed; and it certainly shouldn't be assumed that everyone in the shop is authorised/knowledgable enough to give rulings.

Always seek out the committee not just someone believed to be an authority.

I meant "the pro" not just "anyone in the shop". Given that the Committee comprises "the person or group in charge of the competition or the course", you'd be hard pushed to convince me that the club pro is not part of the Committee in both ways - as a member of the group that is in charge of the competition and the one in charge of the course whether or not a member of a Rules Committee. For example, if it were necessary to suspend play because of an incoming thunderstorm, would you not expect the pro quite often to be the only person there to make the decision and sound the klaxon? On what authority does he do that? The same authority, I'd say, as he makes a ruling.

I think it would be quite wrong to penalise a member as a result of their being given a wrong ruling by the pro.