Lost Ball / OB ruling

[benp22]

I hit my first ball and thought it might be lost so played a provisional which went to the same place!

Anyways I found my first ball however it was lying just beyond the OB markers. Because I found my first ball this then takes the provisional out of play however I was told that if I was to go back to the tee with my first ball again that it would be 5 off the tee because I had already played a provisional. Is this correct?

 

[Imurg]

Don't think so.
Even though you found your first ball it was OB so out of play..thats when the provisional becomes the ball in play and you're 3 off the tee.

 

[rulie]

Because you found your original ball out of bounds, you can continue play with your provisional ball.
The provisional ball must only be abandoned if your original ball is found on the course (ie, in bounds) within the search time permitted.

 

[srixon 1]

1st ball is OOB so you should have played your provisional as long as that wasn’t also OOB.

 

[NearHull]

I hit my first ball and thought it might be lost so played a provisional which went to the same place!

Anyways I found my first ball however it was lying just beyond the OB markers. Because I found my first ball this then takes the provisional out of play however I was told that if I was to go back to the tee with my first ball again that it would be 5 off the tee because I had already played a provisional. Is this correct?

I read your question three times to make sure that I’d understand what your playing partners said. Do they make other rules up?

 

[benp22]

1st ball is OOB so you should have played your provisional as long as that wasn’t also OOB.

Yeah so my provisional went OB too!

 

[benp22]

Because you found your original ball out of bounds, you can continue play with your provisional ball.
The provisional ball must only be abandoned if your original ball is found on the course (ie, in bounds) within the search time permitted.

My provisional ball was also OB and actually did end up lost

 

[benp22]

Don't think so.
Even though you found your first ball it was OB so out of play..thats when the provisional becomes the ball in play and you're 3 off the tee.

But the provisional was OB so couldn’t be the ball in play

 

[Imurg]

If they're both OB then its back to the tee playing 5.

 

[benp22]

If they're both OB then its back to the tee playing 5.

Thanks for clarification

 

[Colin L]

I read your question three times to make sure that I’d understand what your playing partners said. Do they make other rules up?

No rules made up in what the other players said. The OP's first ball is out of bounds and so his provisional ball is now in play lying 3. If before discovering that the provisional is also out of bounds, he goes back to the tee and plays another ball, he is playing stroke and distance for the provisional, his 5th stroke. If he does know his provisional is out of bounds, he must go back to the tee and is playing his fifth stroke.

 

[clubchamp98]

I read your question three times to make sure that I’d understand what your playing partners said. Do they make other rules up?

Not a very good explanation!
It should have just said both balls were oob.

 

[NearHull]

Not a very good explanation!
It should have just said both balls were oob.

It now makes sense. I have to retract my sarcasm.

 

[Swango1980]

No rules made up in what the other players said. The OP's first ball is out of bounds and so his provisional ball is now in play lying 3. If before discovering that the provisional is also out of bounds, he goes back to the tee and plays another ball, he is playing stroke and distance for the provisional, his 5th stroke. If he does know his provisional is out of bounds, he must go back to the tee and is playing his fifth stroke.

In fairness, the fact the Provisional was Out of Bounds only came to light AFTER NearHull's response. In fact, when the OP said " Because I found my first ball this then takes the provisional out of play" implied (to me anyway) that the Provisional was in play, and the only reason the person felt it could not be played was not because it was OB, but because they found their original.

A good example where the misuse of a few words can sometimes paint a very different picture to what actually happened. I think if the player had said "I hit my original and provisional balls OB, but found them both, how do I proceed", then NearHull would have 100% agreed it is 5 off the tee?

 

[Steven Rules]

A good example where the misuse of a few words can sometimes paint a very different picture to what actually happened. I think if the player had said "I hit my original and provisional balls OB, but found them both, how do I proceed", then NearHull would have 100% agreed it is 5 off the tee?

Exactly. I was going to make a similar observation but you beat me to it. This is an important case study for budding rules officials and committee members: make sure you do your best to gather all the facts before making a ruling.

The player's initial telling of the facts was coloured by an incorrect assumption about the status of a provisional ball when the original is 'found' OOB, and an incomplete initial description of the status of the provisional - i.e. either lost or OOB too.

This incompletness happens a lot because often players don't know what are the 'important' facts in the initial telling of the story. There is usually no wilful deception involved; it is just a lack of understanding of what is important. It's the Committee's job to determine the facts of a situation before making a ruling.