Lost ball or birdie ?

[williamalex1]

Seemingly this happened years ago, on a long par 4 in a stableford comp, player hit his 3rd shot heading to the right over a hill to a blind green.
They search for 5 mins but didn't find it, he didn't play a provisional, decided not to walk back and just NR that hole.
But when the other players reach the green, they found his ball in the hole.
I'd say it was a birdie.
Others say lost ball.
What's the correct ruling ?

 

[clubchamp98]

Seemingly this happened years ago, on a long par 4 in a stableford comp, player hit his 3rd shot heading to the right over a hill to a blind green.
They search for 5 mins but didn't find it, he didn't play a provisional, decided not to walk back and just NR that hole.
But when the other players reach the green, they found his ball in the hole.
I'd say it was a birdie.
Others say lost ball.
What's the correct ruling ?

Pretty sure once you hole out that’s your score.
any shots after that are not counted.

 

[rosecott]

Seemingly this happened years ago, on a long par 4 in a stableford comp, player hit his 3rd shot heading to the right over a hill to a blind green.
They search for 5 mins but didn't find it, he didn't play a provisional, decided not to walk back and just NR that hole.
But when the other players reach the green, they found his ball in the hole.
I'd say it was a birdie.
Others say lost ball.
What's the correct ruling ?

Sounds like a tall tale.

Did none of the fellow competitors in his playing group manage to hole out and find his ball in the hole?

 

[williamalex1]

Sounds like a tall tale.

Did none of the fellow competitors in his playing group manage to hole out and find his ball in the hole?

Yes they did, I actually spoke to the player involved today, his F/Cs said it was a lost ball but he was eventually given the birdie after confirmation from the then-H/C convenor.

 

[chrisd]

Once the ball is in the hole, the play on the hole is over, so there is no 5 (or 3 ) minute rule to apply

 

[jim8flog]

AS per chrisd

From the rule book
1.1 The Game of Golf
Golf is played in a round of 18 (or fewer) holes on a course by striking a ball
with a club.
Each hole starts with a stroke from the teeing area and ends when the ball is holed
on the putting green (or when the Rules otherwise say the hole is completed).

 

[salfordlad]

Once the ball is in the hole, the play on the hole is over, so there is no 5 (or 3 ) minute rule to apply

The rule that spells this out is 6.5. This rule was tweaked for 2023 to absorb old 6.5/1.

 

[Maninblack4612]

This comes into the "schoolboy error" / "old chestnut" cstegory

 

[williamalex1]

This comes into the "schoolboy error" / "old chestnut" cstegory

The guy that told the story sits in the clubhouse most days telling tales of how good he used to be. I've been a member for over 40 years and have never seen him play.

 

[Jigger]

AS per chrisd

From the rule book
1.1 The Game of Golf
Golf is played in a round of 18 (or fewer) holes on a course by striking a ball
with a club.
Each hole starts with a stroke from the teeing area and ends when the ball is holed
on the putting green (or when the Rules otherwise say the hole is completed).

I’d read that as you can’t declare a ball lost after it was holed

 

[BiMGuy]

I’d read that as you can’t declare a ball lost after it was holed

When can you declare a ball lost?

 

[chrisd]

When can you declare a ball lost?

When it's clearly out of bounds or the search time has expired

 

[williamalex1]

When can you declare a ball lost?

Play another ball without declaring it's a provisional.

 

[rulefan]

When can you declare a ball lost?

A player can't make a ball 'lost' by declaring it to be lost.
The definition makes it clear.
A ball becomes lost when it is not found in three minutes after the player or their caddie (or the player’s partner or partner’s caddie) begins to search for it.
A ball does not become lost as a result of the player declaring it to be lost.
When a provisional ball is played or the ball is OoB, the original is not lost but is simply no longer in play.

 

[BiMGuy]

A player can't make a ball 'lost' by declaring it to be lost.
The definition makes it clear.
A ball becomes lost when it is not found in three minutes after the player or their caddie (or the player’s partner or partner’s caddie) begins to search for it.
A ball does not become lost as a result of the player declaring it to be lost.
When a provisional ball is played or the ball is OoB, the original is not lost but is simply no longer in play.

Thank you. Hopefully that should clear things up for anyone who still thinks a player can declare a ball is lost.

 

[Swango1980]

When it's clearly out of bounds or the search time has expired

I didn't realise a ball was lost when it was out of bounds?

I'm pretty sure BiMGuy was simply asking the question because there is no such thing as "declaring a ball lost", at least as something that actually has any meaning behind it. It simply becomes lost once the 3 minute search time has expired.

Edit: Just seen Rulefan already gave the detail.

 

[chrisd]

I didn't realise a ball was lost when it was out of bounds?

I'm pretty sure BiMGuy was simply asking the question because there is no such thing as "declaring a ball lost", at least as something that actually has any meaning behind it. It simply becomes lost once the 3 minute search time has expired.

Edit: Just seen Rulefan already gave the detail.

My understanding was the same as Rulefan - it can't be "declared lost", it just becomes lost, but in reality it could be lost in a lake etc etc and if someone used the " I'm declaring that ball lost " I only tend to correct them if its obvious that the ball could be found

 

[Swango1980]

My understanding was the same as Rulefan - it can't be "declared lost", it just becomes lost, but in reality it could be lost in a lake etc etc and if someone used the " I'm declaring that ball lost " I only tend to correct them if its obvious that the ball could be found

Yeah, although I'm purely speaking in term of defined terms within the rules.

For example, if a ball goes into a lake it may well be lost (in the sense that you'll never see it again). But, in golf terms, it isn't lost. It is in the penalty area, hence there are different options to getting a ball back in player compared to those available when it is defined as lost.

It is an important point to make in general. Because, I've heard many times a player say "I declare it lost" thinking it means something, so I have to remind them it doesn't. They can choose not to look for it, no problem. I even remember an occasion when the ball was found in a horrible position, and the player said "I'll declare the ball lost"

 

[Bdill93]

Just to ask - what stops people doing what Williamalex said above?

Say you play a ball and think it may not be findable/ terrible position that you don't really want to find it.

You can just drop a ball where you last played your shot from and continue with that one?

 

[Swango1980]

Just to ask - what stops people doing what Williamalex said above?

Say you play a ball and think it may not be findable/ terrible position that you don't really want to find it.

You can just drop a ball where you last played your shot from and continue with that one?

Yeah, no problem. Again, you are not declaring the ball lost by doing so. You are just putting another ball in play, regardless of where the original went (i.e. a player can take stroke and distance at any time). The original is no longer in play.