Backstopping - Enforcing a Player to Mark Their Ball

[mikejohnchapman]

We had an incident today in a singles stableford competition which led to an uncomfortable stand-off.

Player a plays his ball from off the green to approximately 3' from the flag. The ball is slightly behind the hole but to the side of where Player b is about to play from just off the green. Player b asks him to mark it as it represents a backstop. Player a refuses saying it's not in his line.

Rule 15.3a covers backstopping but the wording is a bit ambiguous. It says a player MAY require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball.

There is a caveat for stroke play which says if 2 or more players agree to leave the ball in place and the player then makes a stroke with the ball in place each player who agreed to leave it in place gets the general penalty.

My question is around compulsion. If Player b requests Player a to mark his ball when he is playing from off the green and Player a refuses what is the correct way forward?

 

[backwoodsman]

My reading of 15.3a does not have the ambiguity you percieve.

My reading is that if the player believes that the ball will be an assistance he can, if he so chooses, require the player whose ball it is, to mark & lift it.

He can require it to be marked. Or he can ignore it. But the choice is his - not the person whose ball it is. Although in strokeplay, the person whose ball it is, can opt to play the ball instead of marking it. If the player whose ball it is, does not comply - either by marking or by playing - they get the General Penalty.

 

[Steven Rules]

We had an incident today in a singles stableford competition which led to an uncomfortable stand-off.

Player a plays his ball from off the green to approximately 3' from the flag. The ball is slightly behind the hole but to the side of where Player b is about to play from just off the green. Player b asks him to mark it as it represents a backstop. Player a refuses saying it's not in his line.

Rule 15.3a covers backstopping but the wording is a bit ambiguous. It says a player MAY require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball.

There is a caveat for stroke play which says if 2 or more players agree to leave the ball in place and the player then makes a stroke with the ball in place each player who agreed to leave it in place gets the general penalty.

My question is around compulsion. If Player b requests Player a to mark his ball when he is playing from off the green and Player a refuses what is the correct way forward?

15.3a should be read this way: The player may take the following actions.....require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball.

Look further down Rule 15.3 for the applicable penalty statement.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 15.3: General Penalty.

This penalty also applies if the player....Refuses to lift their ball or move their ball-marker when required to do so and a stroke is then made by the other player whose play might have been helped or interfered with.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just a clarification for me about the context of the question/dispute.

If players a and b are playing each other, then why would player b not just prefer to have player a’s ball left where it sat…precisely because it could act ask a backstop for his ball if played too long. I’d perhaps expect player a to want to mark his ball to avoid it providing a backstop for player b.

 

[Steven Rules]

In the OP, it was a stroke play (stableford) competition. The entire field must be protected, rather than just being about what a and b want.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In the OP, it was a stroke play (stableford) competition. The entire field must be protected, rather than just being about what an and b want.

Sorry. Misread the context as it being a match.

 

[KenL]

This player must be great to play with!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Nevertheless, why would player b want player a’s ball lifted? So, it’s stroke play?
Why is player B obliged to take away a possible advantage, which has accrued through no action by him, and one which he has not sought nor influenced?
Match play , or stroke play, surely by asking for the ball to be lifted , he is acting against his own interests.

I'm reading it the same way. If the request was the other way around I'd understand it. This way around makes no sense.

 

[rulefan]

I'm reading it the same way. If the request was the other way around I'd understand it. This way around makes no sense.

As SR says
"The entire field must be protected, rather than just being about what and and b want."

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Edit to my previous post which I deleted. It has been pointed out that the rule ( which I had not read does prohibit gaining assistance from a ball left on the green which may give an advantage…
So my query was wrong.

 

[Orikoru]

Why would you refuse to mark your ball? Is he insane?

Why did he even ask him - my understanding of backstopping was as long as you don't say anything then it's fine.

Nothing about this makes sense.

 

[KenL]

If a ball is within 3 feet of the hole I may well ask for it to be marked as it could be a distraction to me and my putt.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Would just walk up and mark it myself

 

[D-S]

Would just walk up and mark it myself

So you know rule 14.1b?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This player must be great to play with!

It is amazing how there are people like that out there

Never ever come across someone who wouldn’t mark a ball when asked - it’s just good manners at the end of the day

What decent reason is there for turning down any such request

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It was also 3" away, why not just tap it in? It wasn't matchplay so order of play is irrelevant. Some people are weird.

 

[KenL]

3 feet, not inches.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

3 feet, not inches.

Ah, I took that to be inches. It added to the daftness

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If a ball is within 3 feet of the hole I may well ask for it to be marked as it could be a distraction to me and my putt.

Exactly this for me. And I suppose if I was Player B I might, in a strokeplay competition context such as this, consider it my duty of care to the rest of the field for me to not be using another player's ball as a backstop. I guess. Truth is I've never found myself in that scenario, as player A would either ask to 'finish off' or would mark his ball.

 

[Neilds]

I've never understood why anyone would try and use a ball as a backstop. Surely, if you are good enough to deliberately hit another ball, you are more than good enough to hit the hole which is 2.5 times bigger then the ball?